How to persuade someone they need a new trumpet?

GordonH

Hello
This is not usually a problem is it?
I mean trumpet players usually need no excuse to get another instrument, but I have a slight problem.

A guy I know who is a really good player is being seriously hampered by having the oldest, most beat up horn you have ever seen in your life.
The back bow is so dented its less than half the correct diameter.
The valves leak.
The whole instrument is warped into a curved shape.
It is REALLY hampering his playing.
His technique is fine but the sound of the instrument is apalling.
It was an ultra cheap horn to start with and has not got any better.
Every time we play together I just want to say to him"get a new horn and a better mouthpiece".

I even thought about buying him something better for his Christmas, but I have a feeling he might feel a bit insulted.

Its a delicate situation and maybe I am being too generous, but I am getting all the solos because he sounds so bad, when in reality he is equally as good as me, better in some respects and its a real shame.

So, how do I broach the subject?

I was thinking of letting him use my trumpet at the next rehearsal to see if he notices any difference.
That might be a start.

I should point out that he has no financial issues which would prevent him getting a new instrument.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

Ask him if you can "try his horn" and offer to let him play yours for a piece or two. If his is as bad as you say it is, he'll get the idea pretty quick and you won't have to say a word to him.

GordonH · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:12 am Post subject:

Yes, I am thinking that way myself.
I just want to do it in such a way as to make him feel better, not worse.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

AverageJoe · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:25 am Post subject:

Yeah, I agree -- see if he'll switch horns with you for a piece or two. Heck, if the horn is as beat up as you said, he probably has wondered more than once why you haven't said anything about it yet! You would think that he probably has heard from someone in the past about getting a new horn...

Best of luck, Gordon --

Paul Poovey

L.Bar-EL · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 1694

IMO, it might be hard for him to hear himself in order to tell the difference in sound between the two horns during a rehearsal.

Compare your horns in private and have a level talk with him. Tell him that you think that his horn is not doing justice to his technique on playing the horn. He can play better than what the horn is letting him to. Tell him that you hate to see a person with such good playing technique as his be blocked from sounding better. Explain to him that every horn has a life to it. The more that the horns wears, gets dented, etc the shorter life it has. By the sound of his horn and by the looks of it, his horn needs major surgery in order to save its life. Tell him straight out that even after major surgery (overhaul) there is no guarantee that the horn will come back to life and this is one of the reasons that people buy new ones; so, he might have to consider buying a new one.

Good luck,

Liad Bar-EL

samlg · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:39 am Post subject:

youcould do as i did in a similar situation and take along two Bb's. bring them both out and put them on a stand. start playing them both and ask what he thinks. i ended up playing on my old student model for the rehearsal while my mate played on my schilke. the one thing about playing a 'bad' horn is it makes you appreciate how good your horn actually is!

have fun, sam

Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

Samig's idea is even better! Good one. You can pretend you are "evaluating" the two and want his opinion. That way he won't feel as if you are trying to set him up.

music matters · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:54 am Post subject:

Me, I would just tell him he's a great player but his horn is rubbish and he needs a better one and he should treat himself as he can afford it. "Try my Schilke and you will see what a pile of rubbish yours is."

I'm originally from the North of England though where a spade is a spade...!

MM

tptscream · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:12 am Post subject:

Does this person not hear the difference in quality between the sound of his horn and that of the others in the section??
_________________
Bach 43*/43
Kanstul/Besson Meha
French Besson Stamm
Holton ST302 MF
Schilke B3
Olds Super (L.A.)
GR 64.7 mp (S/MS/M)
Getzen Signature Flugel- Stork 6FL

_ConnMan · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:21 am Post subject:

OH, do I know what you mean!!! My playing partner is playing on a WELL worn Bach 72* that he bought back in the 1970's. At a minimum, he need to at least do a serious overhaul, but he just keeps on playing the thing. This horn even has air leaks going on, I don't know how he plays the thing. I guess he just can't swing the price of a new horn. He has one kid in college and two others at home yet.

One of these days I guess it will just "Crap" out on him and then he'll be forced to buy a new one.
_________________
Playing For Him,

Kanstul 1600 "WB" w/ Kanstul two-piece B3C & S72 BB
Connstellation 38B
Kanstul 925 Flugelhorn (copper bell) w/ Kanstul two-piece BFL3C w/ 119S BB
Jupiter 416BL Pocket Trpt.
www.measureofgrace.com

GordonH · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:43 am Post subject:

hose · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:46 am Post subject:

GordonH · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:14 am Post subject:

Indeed!

I will take my Beuscher with me as well (1930, just come back from a complete rebuild, looks like new, small bore but nice)
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

mfan · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:35 am Post subject:

SIT ON IT!!! Kick it, step on it whatever. Then say, "Well, looks like ti's time for a new horn." A buddy of mine needed a new bone but refused to part with 'his baby'. Anyway somehow his old one got run over by a mini-van....long story. "Well looks like it's time for a new horn!!"
Collin Reichow
Navy Band New Orleans

_londonhusker · Heavyweight Member Joined: 13 Oct 2002 Posts: 658

First, call Bad-Boy Don, and tell him you caught the guy who stole his old Besson out of the front seat of his car.....

RichN · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:53 am Post subject:

Guy I play with said "get rid of that heap of sh!t and get a new trumpet". My old trumpet wasn't actually that bad, but was holding me back, and I now have a new trumpet. Maybe it's a British thing, but it seemed like a perfectly natural thing for one friend to tell another.

Rich.

GordonH · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:55 am Post subject:

It may be.
Its 5 to 7 in the evening here so I am just leaving for the rehearsal.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

_Don Herman · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:00 am Post subject:

Accidentally sit on the old one?

_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

ianewhall · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:41 am Post subject:

You could offer to help him lay the horn to rest properly. Take him and it out to an empty field, hand him a BB gun, and tell him to shoot it once for everytime he cracked a note, everytime a valve stuck, he had trouble miving a slide, or played a little flat. Someone did that for me once, it was so therapeutic. Needles to say, I had to buy a new horn after that.

There are many variations to this scenario as well, remember "Office Space"? Sledgehammers work well. I do enjoy the thought of the mini-van accident also. That would turn into a pretty cool wall hanging! IAN

L.Bar-EL · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 1694

Yes, I agree that you really should help the guy out by helping him make a decision; so, when he is not looking, bend the crook of his bell even further than what it is already. At every rehearsal, keep bending it a little more until it doesn't play or until he can't stand it. You would really be doing him a favor.

IMO, according to your discription of the horn, it is beyond repair unless major replacement is done and there is no telling what compression the valves have, etc. So, if he has money as you have said, then help him go to the best level of making the right decision.

Liad Bar-EL