intonation with a monette mpc

[screamertrumpet]

Guys,
Yesterday, my friend and I went down to Pullman and talked to the professor of music there and tried out some monette mouthpieces.
Brad (my friend) picked the B4 (it DRASTICALLY improved his playing with just one lesson with it). He didn't tell either one of us what we were trying out until we decided which one was the best for our needs (which is really smart). I used to played on a 1.5C until I decided I was TOO good for and moved to the 1D and 1. Wouldn't you know it, I picked the B3 which is equivalent to a 1.5C (except with the monette twist)? Ironic, eh?

Anyway, to make a long story short, I have one quick question. We learned that you should always tune your main slide to your sound. I was unclear on one thing, though: does this mean that your horn is in tune as well assuming that you're playing on the center of the pitch?
Thanks,
Trevor

[Nicholas Dyson]

The idea behind Monette mouthpieces is that they are designed to be 'in-tune' with your instrument. Because this makes it easier to play (i.e. making the low C and high C in tune with the middle C), you have to do less compensating. When you do less compensating your have less tension in your body. With less tension in your body, you are more relaxed and you will play flat compared to your tension-filled, compensating way of playing. This is why people say you need to push your slide in.

But here's the deal....
Don't worry about where your slide is, as long as you're in tune. Worry about playing as comfortably and tension-free as possible. Then, keep your ears on, and once you are used to playing this way, you will notice that your slide is usually in farther than it was...

Some people don't like Monette mouthpieces because they are so used to the compensation you have to do on conventional mouthpieces. This is just like some lead players wanting differing degrees of back pressure. To each his own.

Good luck, go see Dave Turnbull as much as you can, he'll be lots of help!
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Nicholas Dyson
Ottawa, Canada

[walter]

[ This Message was edited by: walter on 2002-09-20 08:50 ]

[_PhilPicc]

Good point Walter.

I really haven't thought about "Infidels" in years, however I love the correlation.

If someone made a mouthpiece that would guarantee we would all play in tune I might try it out. But then what would the other sections do?

Still using my lips and slides, tunefully yours
Phil
_________________
Philip Satterthwaite

We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
- Sir Thomas Beecham to a musician during a rehearsal

[Nicholas Dyson]

You misconstrued my post, Walter.

It's a fact that Monette mouthpieces are designed to better fit the horn they are played on. Through a lot of algebra and trial and error, Dave et al discovered that the normal 'conventional' mouthpieces are designed for optimum resonance on a trumpet pitched roughly in A. His point is that mouthpiece design hasn't really changed all that much since the 19th Cent., when most trumpets were pitched in A. He demonstrated this with me by letting me show myself how much more even and in tune low C and high C are with middle C when you pull your slide almost all the way out, bringing it down close to A. The octaves are compressed when your slide is in 'Bb position'. Low C is high, compared to Middle C and high C is low, compared to middle C. So, all Dave and his cronies did was match the optimum resonance (through the mass/weight of the mp, and the relationship between rim/cup/throat/backbore). This is why Monettes generally use a larger throat than conventional mouthpieces and why in order to switch horns (Bb to C to Eb to Picc) effectively, the mouthpieces have to be designed to fit those individual horns.

All that being said, brings me to how you miscontrued my post....

Some people like a very freeblowing horn, i.e. the Wild Thing and the large (.470") Callets. Some people don't like that, i.e. yamaha 'Z' Horn and the Shilke's that Yamaha copied. Some people like a shallow mouthpiece, some like a salad bowl size mouthpiece.

And finally...
Some people like the compensation you have to do to find the optimum resonance on a conventional mouthpiece, some switch easily to the Monette and feel like they've been missing something all their careers (that would be me).

So, I guess what it comes down to is that your Allah/Infidels thought is interesting, it's a massive oversimplification of something that needs not be simplified. Personal Taste and Opinion.

Play what you feel most comfortable so you can forget about the mechanics and concentrate on making music. Dave Monette will be the first to tell you that his mouthpieces are not for everyone, he simply offers another choice with a mind to making trumpet playing easier and music making better. I was simply trying to answer a question for someone who is dealing with trying to let go of all the compensation, as Monette mouthpieces are the WORST choice for someone that continues to compensate.
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Nicholas Dyson
Ottawa, Canada

[pedaltonekid]

It has been my findings that in general, a horn will respond better if the tuning slide is not pulled out excessively. If the slide is way out to get the instrument in tune, there may be something going on with the embouchere - or perhaps the horn is not to spec. If one finds that they must pull the slide way out on all horns, I would recommend that they consult with a good teacher who could at least comment on any anomolies they may have with their playing.
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Best Regards, Play Well!!

[Nicholas Dyson]