Best AMP for trumpet

cujazztrpt · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:56 am Post subject: Best AMP for trumpet

Hello everybody! Ive got a gig in a big ballroom that probably seats around a hundred people. We will be playing standards and Jazz. We don't have a PA system but the band sounds great without one anyways but this will be a bigger room, I think I will need to use an amplifier? So the question is, should I use a Bass amp or a guitar amp? I will be using a clip on mic with it and remember we don't have a PA system. I just want my muted trumpet to be heard. Thanks!
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cujazztrpt · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:34 am Post subject:

I probably won't need amplification, I just want to showcase my breathy/airy trumpet sound open and muted. The acoustics on in the ballroom is great but almost like a church which I don't like (not my style).
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maynard-46 · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:55 am Post subject: Best AMP for trumpet

guitar amp

cujazztrpt · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:05 am Post subject:

Thanks maynard! have had any experience with a guitar amp?? It's funny,,ive been gigging since 1994 in over 10 foreign countries and I still don't know anything about PA systems, mics and amps!!
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maynard-46 · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:58 am Post subject: Best AMP for trumpet

I've essentially been doing gigs since I was 13-14 years old. We used to do dances, parties, proms, dixieland concerts etc. Most times there would be 6 of us...all piled in to one car (he was the only one of us that was old enough for a drivers license!...and he only had a permit...so every gig we played he was driving illegally 'cause there wasn't a valid driver in the car!) We put whatever instruments, that would fit, in the trunk and the remainder of the equipment went on our laps, under our feet, wherever we could fit them! PA's weren't super big in 1960...if you had one you had $$$ and you were looked up to by all the other bands! We had two guitar players in the band and we put EVERYTHING through those two guitar amps. Hopefully there would be enough channels free! We thought the sound was great!!! (probably, for those times, it was!) We may not have sounded all that good but we got ALOT of gigs and, more so, we had ALOT of fun! Good luck with your gig!

Butch

pfrank · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:36 am Post subject:

Bass amp. I don't know exactly what situation Maynard-46 was in, but putting a band through 2 guitar amps (if the amp is what the audience is hearing, not the acoustic sound) is a lousy way to get a decent sound...unless we are talking about some kind of Huge closed-back amp...like the old "Custom" amps...and not much volume. Now-a-days guitar amps are opened back (so that they aren't bassy), small, (10 to 12 inch speaker or 2) and are made for GUITAR frequencies---high frequencies that don't take many watts to propell (bass frequencies are longer and need mucho wattage to equal the same volume as high frequencies) Most guitar amps will distort at a mic'd trumpets' high output volume...they are made for low output magnetic pickups...

As a bassplayer (in the past mostly) I was surprised to find that I get a Great sound out of a bass amp...(if it has a tweeter all the better). No typical guitar amp can reproduce the warm low mids needed for a nice trumpet sound. (Well, maybe a Fender Twin isn't bad, but it's a bassy guitar amp, and you wouldn't want to put anything else through it) Bass amp speakers are Very heavy duty and can stand a trumpets sound without making it sound like a razor blade...the usual guitar amp sound.

But if I were you, I'd just get a instrument mic and pre amp it and EQ it and get the best possible sound out of your PA. I use a small tiltable bass amp as a Monitor (either an Ampeg BA115 or a Galien Kruger Backline 1-10 bass practice amp) In Front of me...it faces me so that I don't have to use the vocal monitors. Using a mic with an amp means that if it's facing the audience it has to be infront of you or waaay over to the side...or else feedback is the result. (I'm assuming this isn't at very low, almost acoustic volume...) Clubs, theatres and ballrooms operate at a higher sound pressure (volume) than they used to in the 60s, but not as loud as they were in the 80s and 90s...

FatPauly · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Best AMP for trumpet

See Lou "Kateeba" Guarino's thread on the new Bose system. It might be a bit pricey for what you want, but it might be rentable in your locale also.

maynard-46 · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:06 am Post subject: Best AMP for trumpet

pfrank,
We had no choice...we didn't use a bass player!...and for kids 14-16 in 1960 it didn't seem to sound too bad! We were happy when it worked...let alone what it sounded like!!!

BW

pfrank · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:40 am Post subject:

BW, I know what you mean! Not in 1960, but in 1970...
1960 was a long time ago, durring the Great Folk Music Scare... everyone was trying to copy the Kingston Trio, the 4 Freshmen, etc. (or so I've heard)....thank krishna we survived it, and went on to better things.

_dcstep · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:29 am Post subject:

PA. Guitar and bass amps roll off the frequency response at about 3-4kHz. You'll loose your high overtones and sound like some other instrument. (Extended Range guitar speakers are available, but I'm assuming you're talking about something like an average Fender or Peavy).

Dave
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Robert Rowe · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:55 pm Post subject:

NO, NO, NO, NO, & NO! (as per maynard-46).
I am a multi-instrumentalist (guitar, bass, mandolin, bouzouki, banjo, keyboards, mando-cello...& trumpet/cornet, of course, & trombone).

I have been collecting, and playing with/thru amps for 30+ years. I have over 40, going back to some vintage 1940's jobs. I have/had everything from Marshall stacks, to v small hand-built "boutique" amps (v mucho $$).
The optimum amplification for you would be playing to a high-end mike run through a dedicated patch on the "house" board. Of couse you don't need or have that available. The best value going ("best bang for the buck") is one of the Peavey Keyboard amps...new or used. These jobs are real "Road Warriors" (Heavy Duty and almost "bullet-proof"). The main thing here, is keyboard amps have little-or-no "gain" (distortion), plenty of "headroom" (clean lower-frequency), no "over-tones" or "harmonics". Also, they have dedicated imputs for mic, keyboard, guitar, bass, acoustic instrument., etc...with "line outs" (to board or auxiliary amplification), or extension speakers, etc. For various venue acoustic situations, the sound reproduction can be "EQ'd" (tone adjustment and effects, like reverb or phaseing, "presence").
Plus, they have great re-sale value! I have some amps worth $3000, but the Peavey Keyboard amp is the "go-to" one for gigging. I paid $150 !!
Robert Rowe
"...you cain't polish a turd!..." (old Southern expression)

_Don Herman · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:20 pm Post subject:

Roland also makes a decent keyboard amp (or two or three, with different power ratings and features).

I agree, for trumpet you really want full-range if at all possible.
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Robert Rowe · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:05 pm Post subject: Amplification

Right you are, Mr. Don Herman --
In trying to brief regarding a complicated subject, I did fail to mention the excellent Roland keyboard amps. MIJ ("Made in Japan") Roland is a "high-end" audio and sound reinforcement product manufacturer. that has a very affordable line of keyboard amps. They have been around a long time, and their warrenty service is exemplary.
Also, Mr. Herman is correct stateing that as much full-range as possible is desired. If you play your horn in the lower register (and you should -- it is a legitimate register for the trumpet), and go "upstairs" frequently (aside from showing-off), you need a system with full dynamic range. Go to a full-line music store, and ask for someone knowledgeable regarding PA and acoustic instrument (your trumpet) sound reinforcement. Avoid the "guitar-heads" (they will be easy to spot -- "goofy" hair, body piercings, tattoos, bad facial hair, always a black T-shirt with something like "Mega-Death" or "Insane Clown Posse" or "Hoobastank" -- you can't make this stuff up -- ...and, they are awaiting Kurt Cobain's next career move).
Also, ask about "Effects Processesors". These are cool devices (sometimes foot pedals) that connect to an amps "effects loop". You can do all kinds of neat (cool) things with these (think Jimi Hendrix). I think there was a trumpet player back in the 1970's (Don Ellis ??) who put out some LP's using this technology. Believe-it-or-not, so did Miles Davis !!

Robert Rowe

Effort = Results

LittleRusty · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:35 pm Post subject:

I've had good luck with the Rolands, I have a pair of KC-500's.

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

Well, this is an interesting topic...here's my take on sound reinforcement, but I think it takes a good bit of money to do it well...

I haven't had any dealing with PA equipment for many years now, but I'm going to make some comments about what I think would sound good. Unfortunately, I think my ideas are also very expensive.

In the good old days, I played with a group that used Altec Lansing A7s - the Voice of the Theater speakers - Altec Lansing mixer and power amps, and Beyer mics. Needed a pickup truck to haul it all around, as well as more than one pair of hands and arms to tote A7s here and there...but they sounded pretty good and clean, and I think clean is the most important thing in sound reinforcement of horns.

I have never played with a wireless mic of any kind, so I can't comment on them, but they seem to be the thing nowadays. I think, however, that I'd use a Shure SM57, if I had my choice of anything. And, those aren't very expensive, but I think they do a nice job on horns.

As far as amplification goes, I'd consider something made by Crown, if I could afford it. Make sure you error on the side of more than enough power. Not so much for volume, but for clarity of sound. But, I think they're lots of money. I'd also biamp the system - it just seems to be a lot cleaner when you do. Sometimes you can get a biampable single cabinet, rather than separate cabinets. Stand mounted, with subwoofers, if you can afford it. Otherwise, a couple good quality cabinets with horns and 15 speakers.

I like the sound of ElectroVoice PA speakers. I like them better than JBL. I have played through Peavey before and didn't care much for it.

I'm sure you can easily find less expensive equipment than what I have mentioned here. but I'd try to do the concept. Biamp the system somehow, and use as good of quality equipment as possible. That will help a lot with clarity and presence, which I think are two of the most important characteristics...

cujazztrpt · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:54 pm Post subject:

Whew! thanks a lot for the info,! I had heard of the Roland KC 500,,but again. My purpose here is to have money coming in not out. Maybe if can a gig like this weekend a steady one. I had tried a Bass amp this morning and I think it'll work, if it doesnt work on the gig then I wont use it, I'll just rely on the natural accoustics which works just great but no mutes and no Chet Baker stuff. Again, to all you of you who shared your knowledge ,,thanks!!! But ive been considering on getting a small PA system for years anyway. It's just most clubs will usually have one with sound engineers and smaller clubs doesnt need it.
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crzytptman · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:29 pm Post subject:

JBL Eon is a personl 15" powered monitor you plug your mic directly into. You can use it as your own personal PA or you can use it "in line" to the board. I never leave home without it.
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_dcstep · Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:00 am Post subject:

I second the Eon as a great little PA that works well and doesn't weight a ton.

Dave
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Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

cujazztrpt · Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:27 am Post subject:

Who sells Eon?
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gregc · Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:37 am Post subject:

A PA or keys/bass amp. Guitar amps are voiced for guitar and have limited bandwidth. Thay also distort easier (most by design).
gregc