Question about a Conn 22B

[puukka]

I once had a CONN 22B New York Symphony (should have been made in the 30ties) and the strange thing was the dark, bronze colour.
It was not only the lacquer, it was the material itself.
So I wonder, was that common with that trumpet or a special edition.
Any infos welcome,
Herbert
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Schilke 11C2
K&H Topline

[connloyalist]

No, that wasn't common. The lacquer of that period does tend to turn dark (which doesn't reflect on the quality of the lacquer nor the brass underneath). The brass itself having that color is odd....

Regards, Christine

[puukka]

Thanks Christine!
That´s what I thought seeing only normal coloured 22B (or also that red bell ones)
I have a picture of mine but is it true that I can´t post it? (Seems I only can post pictures of the web).
Cheers,
Herbert
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[Johnny-Highnote]

http://www.imageshack.us./

You can load Your piccs her...
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Greatings from Germany
Dennis


38b "Frankenconn" with Bauerfeind Valve block/ Yamaha 6345G /Yamaha 631/Courtois 154G / Curry+Klier 1,5 mpc`s

[puukka]

Ahhh, thanks, let´s have a try....

Sorry, no other picture available. It´s me when I was young, 1987, about 20kg less and more hair.
I´m interested, if someone knows something about that "special edition" of the CONN 22B.
Cheers,
Herbert
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Schilke 11C2
K&H Topline

[connloyalist]

The Conn 22B New York Symphony Special. Produced between about 1936 and 1941. Difference with "normal" 22B is it had some nickel trim (a band around each valve and the valve slides), extensive engraving on the bell. The 3rd slide and brace is a bit different, the slide starts ("opens up") closer to the 3rd valve and the brace between the top and bottom half of the 3rd slide is consequently also closer to the 3rd valve. Why.... who knows. I am open to suggestions.

It has been suggested that the "Special" versions were the better quality instruments, at least from a build point of view.

These days 22B Specials are found in two types: those with original, poor condition, lacquer (about 25% of instruments) and those that have been relacquered (thereby destroying the extensive engraving) (about 75%). I have yet to see a 22B New York Symphony Special in decent original condition. Suggestion: relacquering vintage instruments IMHO should NOT be done unless the original lacquer is in absolutely dreadful condition. Like in "really less than 50%", and should never be done simply because the lacquer has discolored. Relacquering a vintage instrument slashes the value of that instrument. Such as the nice and rare 1939/1940 (not quite sure off the top of my head) 8A Victor on eBay now. It was relacquered apparently because of peeling and discoloring lacquer. The relacquering job was actually well done, since the engraving on the bell still looks good (unusual). However, in original condition it would probably have been worth quite a bit more.

Sorry, end of rant.

Regards, Christine


Regards, Christine

[puukka]

Hello Christine
Thanks, I also started to study your great webpage.
Well, my 22B had no nickel trim, it was complete of the same, strange dark brass. When I compare the pictures on your webpage so there might be still a difference with material/lacquer. I guess, mine had still the original lacquer (about 90%) but in that bronze colour. Or do you think, it could have darkened that way throughout the years?
Regards,
Herbert
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Schilke 11C2
K&H Topline

[Martin]

Hallo Herbert!

What a nice surprise! Somehow I knew I couldn´t be the only trumpet geek in a city of 1.7 million people.
Are you sure it´s the brass and not the lacquer? I have a 22B from 1926, and it is all dark-copper-honey coloured, just like yours. But there´s some bare brass showing on the leadpipe, and it polished up to the usual yellow brass colour. Of course, I let it tarnish again...
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All the best

Martin
_____________________________________________________________________
"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt

[puukka]

Hello Martin
Well, if the brass gets dark-copper-honey coloured within a long time as you say, then I agree with that.
So only the bronze lacquer is the unusual thing. But who knows, after 70 years it might have been not the original lacquer anymore.
Thanks to all for the infos.
Regards,
Herbert
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Schilke 11C2
K&H Topline

[plp]

I have an old Couesnon Lafeyette, unknown vintage, horrible player, but in mint condition. The laquer is this same dark, dark golden toffee color, and is without a scratch or blemish. I wonder if the way these are stored (dark closet vs. attic, climate controlled vs. high variables in temperature) contributes to the darkening of the laquer? I know with the Conns it is as much the chemical makeup of the laquer, just wondered if anyone knows what makes them go darker with time.

[Johnny-Highnote]

Hello Herbert
shure the "Lustre-Conn Finish" can get that dark-bronze look with the years-here´s a picture of my 1948 Conn-Victor/80A Cornett (my next restauration objekt,now that my 22B works perfect )
Or, maybe Your 22B was original Gold-laquered (as i know,they did this at special order)
This one has the original-laquer-the engravings are sharp as new,even if there´s not much of the laquer on it,i don´t re-laquer the horn...
Greatings from Germany
Dennis


_________________
Greatings from Germany
Dennis


38b "Frankenconn" with Bauerfeind Valve block/ Yamaha 6345G /Yamaha 631/Courtois 154G / Curry+Klier 1,5 mpc`s

[puukka]

Hello Dennis, hello pnp
Yes, I would also discribe it as a dark golden toffee color.
And I guess, it might have been the golden lacquer, as you mentioned.
So the mystery seems to be resolved.
Regards,
Herbert
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