GR Pieces versus Bach: A Sound Discussion

[teb1034]

Hello All,

There has been lots of talk regarding GR's and many pleased customers. I have been a Monette fan for quite some time now, but there are some things that don't work on it for me. In an act of 'trying something new' and a teacher recommendation, I went back to the classic Bach 1-1/4C (22 throat). It has helped for some things and hindered others.

Here's the question/concern: My teacher prefers the Bach or Laskey "sound" versus the heavier weight and darker Monette. How does a GR piece compare to the sound of a Bach/Laskey? I ask this without having played any GR's (looking to try on Saturday).

Also, any GR groupies out there than can tell me the rough equivalent to a 1-1/4C? Yes, I've filled out the questionaire and gotten a LOT of recommendations... just curious to hear some testimonials.

Take Care.
-TB

[RichN]

Far from an expert on this (maybe pm dcstep?) but I've been playing 1 1/4c and 2 1/2c for a while and tried a couple of GRs last week. I've posted my views on the 66MX that I now own elsewhere, but as it hasn't attracted discussion, I'll post it here as well.

Regards size, I always found the big plus of the 1 1/4 was that it gave me more flexibility and room to move around on it, but overall preferred the 2 1/2c. With the GRs, the 67 series is about the same cup diameter as the 1 1/4 but I felt that I got plenty enough flexibility with the 66, it was easier to play and I didn't feel I needed the extra size any more.

I have to say though - Brian Scriver was nearly spot on with his recommendations - he thought I'd like a 67MX.

Here goes:
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For years now, I’ve played on either a Bach 1 1/4C or 2 1/2C, but I’ve never been completely comfortable with either, nor with any of the other Bachs, Wicks or Yamahas that I’ve tried. It’s entirely possible that one of these manufacturers makes a mouthpiece that really works for me, it’s just that I’ve never found it.

Recently, I decided that it was time to see if there was anything better out there. I did my Internet research and asked the questions on the forums (mostly here and Trumpet Herald), and GR seemed to get the most interesting reactions, some really positive, some really negative, so I filled in the questionnaire and Brian Scriver recommended 67MX or 67C*. Last week, I went round to the UK importer’s house, he was very helpful, and I ended up walking out with a 66MX, which is feels exactly the same size as my 2 1/2C.

Impressions……

Big improvement in sound, rich, buttery smooth, but with a real ‘zing’ when I want it.

Much more comfortable than the Bachs, still feels good after 1 ½ hrs of rehearsal, which is a first. Also really easy to place on my face, I just park it on my lips and it’s comfy. With the Bachs I usually have to have a few attempts before I’m happy with the placement.

Much more stable tone, seems to find the tone centres much easier. I’ve had to learn to be a little more positive about my lip-slurs than with the Bachs, it’s actually easier because it helps me to find the new notes easier, but has needed a slight adjustment in technique.

Better pitching, I hit notes bang on that I always split before, particularly above the stave. Also improved range and endurance. I initially thought I’d lost about a tone, but as I’ve got used to it over the last week, it’s come back, and last night, I was pitching top Bs (2 spaces above the stave) quite comfortable at the end of the rehearsal. For me, this is a huge achievement!

Makes me more attractive to women and better in bed.

In fact, I can’t think of a single way in which it isn’t a huge improvement over the Bachs (which will soon be on Ebay!). Expensive? Yes, but not outrageous, and certainly worth it for what it gives me. Not just me either, our 1st chair trumpet had a play on it, and had a similar reaction, although he felt it was a bit too small for his tastes.

I’m not pretending it’s perfect at everything, of course it isn’t, but it’s got the best set of compromises for me and my playing that I’ve ever come across in a mouthpiece. I’m also not saying that it wouldn’t be equalled or bettered by another mouthpiece that I haven’t tried, but GR’s service and interest in me was a credit to them, and (unlike most of the small, modern, specialist outfits like Curry etc.) they’re available for trial in the UK, or at least the more mainstream versions are.

Actually, the only problem I’ve had is that it won’t fit in the plastic mouthpiece holders in my new style Bach Strad case. Disaster.
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Rich.

[mattdalton]

TB -
I have been playing Monette B2/C2 mouthpieces since 1991 but have recently been trying a GR on my Bach Bb (still playing the Monette on my Monette C) to see what it's all about. After being told the 67C - 67C* -67C** would be closest "in blow," I tried all three and settled on the 67C** as best for my Bb trumpet. I found the 67C* to be a bit too tight, and imagine you might too if you play a 24 throat. The 67C was a little more open than the 67C** and while I liked the little-bit broader tone of the 67C, it didn't respond as well on my instrument.

The 67C / 67C* /67C** rim is a bit different than the Bach 1-1/4C or Monette B2, so it will feel different, but the diameter is really close. I most notice that the alpha angle is higher on the GR - not a lot, but noticeable. The Monette has a bit more flatness to the rim, but that's less of a difference to me. Both are comfortable. I've been playing it for a month and am fairly pleased with the result, as the 67C** tends to help keep my aperture closer together and articulations are improved. But I'm also hoping to try a 67MX (same diameter and rim shape, a little lower alpha angle) soon to see if it works even better in a couple of small respects.

The sound of the GR, as I can best tell by listening to the ring in a larger room, is probably closer to Bach/Laskey than the Monette, although it's different than both. I haven't yet recorded myself in a good room to compare that way. The GR seems brighter from the player end, but (based on comments of others) isn't necessarily so out in the room. I can sound "like me" on the mouthpiece, so I'm not really worrying about it during this inital period. Of course the best assessment of sound difference would be to find a GR that works for you, then play it back to back with the Bach in a large room with trusted friends listening.

Of course, your mileage may vary. Hope this helps.
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Matt Dalton

[_dcstep]

[quote="mattdalton"]The sound of the GR, as I can best tell by listening to the ring in a larger room, is probably closer to Bach/Laskey than the Monette, although it's different than both. I haven't yet recorded myself in a good room to compare that way. The GR seems brighter from the player end, but (based on comments of others) isn't necessarily so out in the room. I can sound "like me" on the mouthpiece, so I'm not really worrying about it during this inital period. Of course the best assessment of sound difference would be to find a GR that works for you, then play it back to back with the Bach in a large room with trusted friends listening.
quote]

You guys are doing a great job without me, but my name was mentioned so I thought I'd jump in to affirm the above. Rich also mentioned some "zing" that the player hears.

I agree with all this, particularly that you need to have others help you listen. I really love the 65-66-67 GR series and find it easy to manuever my way around the sizes, but for someone looking for a more "classic" tone, you might investigate the Haefner or the Najooms. I have never compared my 66MX to a Haefner or Najoom, so I can't really speak comparatively to the tone. May Bri Scriver or a dealer that deals with both will jump in to educate us.

The 66MX series speaks more quickly than the old Bach 1 1/2C MV (my old reference) and makes it easier to resonate the trumpet. (It's intonation is superior, my endurance is better with it, etc., etc., but I'm forcusing on tonality). This is perceived as brilliance to the player and really helps you carry, BUT some may be more comfortable sticking closer to the Bach tone model, thus the one of the signature series may be the ticket for those players.

Dave
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Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
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[disabled account]

I've recently switched to a GR Haefner 1HX Sig. I had been switching around trying to find something that would work the best on my new Yamaha Chicago C. I tried Parke, Laskey, Bach (old and new), and wasn't happy with any of them. The Laskey especially was not good. It probably was just a lemon but wow, horrible intonation! I really like the Parke Merkelo and Hagstrom, but when I tried a GR I was really impressed. I first played a 67VC (like a Bach 1 1/4 with a slight V cup) that I bought at Dillion's. It was really nice but a bit small for me. Also the alpha angle was too high for me.

So I switched to a Haefner after talking with Steve Haefner and Brian Schriver for a long time. The 1HX is like a Mt. Vernon 1C rim with a B cup. This mouthpiece provides a huge sound, plenty of room, a low alpha angle, and great intonation. I got the model with the #3 backbore which is a bit larger than the 24. I would recommend to anyone.

[mattdalton]

Peabody is right about the Haefner 1HX signature mouthpiece - it's a fine piece. I'll add that it is also great in the upper register - amazingly so for a mouthpiece of its size.

I tried the 1HX for a few days, but the flat rim (actually based on a Bach 1X rim rather than a 1C) just didn't work for me. But if you are looking for a big orchestral sound and flat rims work for you, the 1HX should be on your short list of mouthpieces to try.
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Matt Dalton

[fuzzyjon79]

I used to play a Bach 1-1/4C and was advised to try the GR 67MX and it is fantastic!!!!!!!
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J. Fowler
"It takes a big ole' sack of flour, to make a big ole' pan of biscuits!"

[teb1034]

I was able to try some GR's this weekend... here are my brief results. Keep in mind, this is how *I* responded to these pieces.

67MX - Articulation not as clear, slotting not as solid as expected.

67L - Improved Articulation, will take some adjusting, slotting good.

67C* - About the same as the L.

I only had time to try the medium-large cup mouthpieces that were recommended (the 3 listed)... so my next question? How did you guys decide which one to buy?? The L and C* felt about the same, and I could tell little if any difference (definitely not enough difference to be able to put into words). I didn't end up buying anything because I wanted to sit on this decision and probably go for a gold plating too. My only main complaint was that on all pieces, a lost my high G with all of them! I'm sure it would come back during the adjustment period... but that was surprising.

[ejaime23]

After trying mouthpieces for a good while in the presence of many pro players (no, seriously, real legit top symphony musicians), we've always gone bakc to the Bach mouthpieces. This is including a blind test in front my trumpet prof and the entire trumpet studio. There's something about the sound of the Bach mouthpiece that gives you a certain core to the sound that no other mouthpiece manufacturer has succesfully copied. Now the feel and intonation of some other mouthpieces might be better, but I think when it comes down to it, the sound of a Bach keeps on winning. Hope this helps!!

[_dcstep]

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[teb1034]

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