red rot

[Flange]

Can anyone tell me how, if at all to detect red rot from the outside of a laquered horn?

[Tootsall]

Look for pinkish blotches (pin-head sized and up to maybe 1/8" dia and irregularly shaped) under the lacquer; especially on the leadpipe & tuning slide but also just about anywhere else including the outside of valve bodies.

So far I've seen this kind of rot exclusively on Yamaha instruments: student trumpet, student cornet, student baritone horn and a pro tenor sax (on the valve pad covers). I believe all of these horns to have been pre 1980 models.

[Alsorann]

Red rot is certainly not exclusive (or even very common) on Yamaha instruments. I've had a Post War Meha and a Getzen Eterna need lead pipes, and my son's Blessing trombone had a riproaring case.

[Tootsall]

Sorry if I left a misimpression, Alsoran. I did not mean to say that only Yamahas experienced red rot: that is certainly not the case. I was merely saying that I have personally only seen red rot on Yamahas (and not just the trumpets) and that the appearance was of a pinkish stain under the lacquer. I believe someone has said that red rot can also show as small bubbles under the plating if it is a silver plated horn: I have never seen a red-rotted, silver plated horn so cannot comment.

I agree that ANY brass horn can develop red rot if it is treated improperly or has poor metallurgy.

[ralphnz]

my lacquered yamaha maestro cornet's got some dodgy pink spots on the leadpipe. does it happen to other finishes?

[Tootsall]

Yes. Red rot is when the zinc that is in the brass starts to get eaten away through the acids in your breath/spit/whatever. When this happens it starts to leave very tiny "holes" in the metal... which is gone forever. Starting from the inside of the tubing it works it's way to the outside... once you can see the pink blotches (or, in the case of a silver horn, the bubbling of the finish), the damage has happened and will only get worse. It is not a reversible process.

You can slow it down (if it has started) by keeping the horn dry... after every use! Some people recommend a bit of oil inside the horn to keep more acid from getting into the pits. Wash the horn well, then dry it "bone dry" and follow up with a spray of oil. (Otherwise the oil will trap the acidic moisture inside the pits). I use my wife's hair dryer to blow warm air through until the water droplets are gone. Obviously don't be drinking acidic beverages while playing or practicing (rum n coke springs to mind!)

The higher the concentration of zinc in the brass (yellow brass is higher in zinc content than red brass), the more damage that can be done since there is more zinc to be potentially lost ... one reason that was used by some companies for using red brass (or "gold" brass) in their leadpipes.

The moral? Don't put your horn away "wet".
Oh... and watch out when you are buying used horns "sight unseen"! You never know what's hiding inside the tubing.

[Rondawg]

Use spitballs everyday playing. I blow one through dry(or soaked in water depends on where I am) once. Then I put six drops of oil on it the next time and blow it though. It drys out the spit(or soaks it up) and the valve oil helps protect the bore.

And also clean your trumpet regularly.
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[Timothy Connelly]

I have two 50+ year-old Olds trumpets, and a 20+ year-old Conn. No red rot. The only red rot I have encountered is in a "new" leadpipe that my repair technician put on my Bach Strad 10 years ago. It seems that manufacturing standards have something to do with this problem. But it is not limited to certain manufacturers.

Tim

[trumpetmike8]

What are spit balls?
Musically,
Trumpetmike8
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[tom turner]

Hi,

Lots of original Benge trumpets seemed to have this problem on their leadpipes. However, red rot can hit any brand.

I had a real nice 37* made around '85 that developed a tiny pin hole in an unseen area. At first I'd hear a slight "buzz" on certain notes. I finally took out the tuning slide, put my thumb over the exit end of the leadpipe, filled it with water . . . and discovered my leadpipe could also serve as a mini-squirt gun.

Rather than replace the leadpipe I took the plunge and auditioned a bunch of new leadpipes . . . and found a new, original Pilczuk pipe that made a super-fine Bach into an even better horn.

As has been said . . . keep it clean . . . or little pits will begin inside the leadpipe until those little pock marks eat all the way through the brass to the outside!

Tom

[Rondawg]