Balanced Embouchure

[Mikester]

Any success stories using Jeff Smiley's book, "The Balanced Embouchure"?

I bought a copy from Bruce Lee at our Michigan clinic. Even though I have been a superchopper for 2 years, I lose my chin bunch in the extreme register. Jeff's exercises look good for developing this. Also, I can see a change in Bruce's playing. That rascle has gained about an octave since ITG! Bruce has the picture perfect Roll-Out.
_________________
Mike
(Previously - "Brass Boy")

http://www.bigbandofpraise.com

[ This Message was edited by: Mikester on 2001-11-13 10:50 ]

[Wtrager]

I think Jeff's book is great! Jeff really helped to fill in some of the missing pieces I had concerning superchops. I liked Jeff's views on teachers vs. players, and his "take" on many of the issues that he tries to tackle in his book.
Sincerely,
Wayne
PS- Jeff's book is definately worth while investment.
_________________
Wayne Trager
http://www.tragertrumpettalk.com

[histrumpet]

Mike,
I've had my book a week and I'm trying to overcome my flat chin and open setting. If you have already got the book you know about where I am, if you don't let me say that Jeff's book is full of good information and is well worth the money. More so if you are having range and endurance problems. I have not mastered the basic exercises yet but have been able to squeak out a thin E above high C with no pain, it's like it just kind of popped out with out much effort at all. You are going to have to relearn the way you do things but in the long run it is well worth it. Jeff explains and gives exercises to train the lips to find the proper position for playing in the upper and lower register. Good luck with your playing.

[airegin]

I sent in my order last week. I hope I get it this week!! I can't wait to have SC explained clearly.

Rob

[Lex Grantham]

I do not think you will find the book to be true SC, but Jeff Smiley's "Balanced Embouchure" is a fine example of exercises to use in developing your playing.

Nice contribution to trumpet playing literature and methodology.

Sincerely,

Lex Grantham

[airegin]

i got the book today! i was shocked that it got here so fast. i skimmed thru it tonight but will give it more attention tomorrow.
Mr Grantham, thank you for your SC stuff too. I'll give it a more thorough read tomorrow also. I am an (a?) SC believer. It just makes sense. goodnight!

rob

[tptguy]

As Jeff is the first to point out, his method is not Superchops and makes no claims to be Superchops. Though it shares a few points with SC, the essential techniques are utterly different and in some very important ways opposing. This doesn't take anything away from Jeff's technique; it is worth studying on its own merits. But, somehow this method and Superchops have been confused together. For the sake of both, I thought it important to clarify this important point: Superchops and The Balanced Embouchure are not similar. Best regards, Kyle

[jhaysom]

I have recently bought both the Superchops book & video and Jeff Smiley's Balanced Embouchure book. I can't claim that I've studied either one or gone through their exercises exhaustively but I have drawn something useful from both and my range and endurance have definitely improved. (After almost 50 years of playing trumpet, I'm finally learning how to blow the damn thing. Jeff Smiley's comments about trumpet teaching are especially poignant to me.)

Frankly, I'd be hard pressed to describe the differences in the approaches. Smiley's book is much more thorough and better articulated and helps fill in some of the missing information in the Callet material. But they're both talking about compressing the lips rather than stretching them.

I thought the Callet video was a bit of a joke and not very helpful except for the part where he picks up his horn and effortlessly plays the exercises an octave higher than the student. That has to be pretty convincing that he's onto something!

If someone who has studied both would like to describe the differences between Callet and Smiley, I'm all ears (eyes?). Maybe Jeff himself?
_________________
John Haysom
Ottawa, Ontario
Canada
Yamaha 8310ZS trumpet
Yamaha 6310ZS trumpet
Courtois flugel
1941 King Silvertone cornet
1941 King 2B valve trombone
Kanstul 920 piccolo
etc.

[Lee Adams]

John

Maybe I can help shed some light on the Super Chops video #1.
There is some beneficial stuff going on there and I will try to share it with you.

1. Notice that Mr Callet states that the video and book are designed together.
The video allows you to see up close and hear 3 stages of SC students. The first guy is in the early stages of changing to SC, the second is at an intermediate level, the third is at an advanced level.

2. Notice the reference made to practice in front of the mirror often so that you can monitor if you are slipping back into old habits.
If you observe the close ups of the students a great visualization of the topographic evidences of SC are seen in the 2nd and 3rd students. The upward bunching chins, the slight bulges under the lips, less corner tension and more center compression. This can assist in giving understanding of SC in actual application.

3. Notice the importance of getting control of the low register first. The first student in the video gets alot of input from Jerry. Most anyone changing to SC from a smile or stretch embouchure will need the different pointers given to that student, and the scenario of articulating basic exercises will indeed be similar to those starting out in SC.

4. The Video 1 and book are actually something that most people will return to a number of times to review and observe while putting the pieces together.

5. The imprerssive demo of Dominic Derase and Nipper Murphy also shows pro players using SC. Notice the minimal corner tension and center compression of those two great players in the demos.
Good luck at SC. Oh yeah what state are you in?

As always AAtozhvac@cs.com 706-347-2429
_________________
Lee Adams 404-316-4072
www.callet.com
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[tptguy]

Lee, As always, great post! Best regards, Kyle

[jhaysom]

Lee

I'm in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.
_________________
John Haysom
Ottawa, Ontario
Canada
Yamaha 8310ZS trumpet
Yamaha 6310ZS trumpet
Courtois flugel
1941 King Silvertone cornet
1941 King 2B valve trombone
Kanstul 920 piccolo
etc.

[tptguy]

John, A few drills, particularly pedal note precedures, are shared by both SC and BE. And, there are some other points of agreement such as loose corners. But in fact, the ways the tongue, lips, and air are used in each system are entirely different. And one will not train you for the other. Best regards, Kyle

[airegin]

the tongue on lips and bunched chin sound the same.

[trumpetteacher1]

Hello all!

As Kyle once told me, there is Superchops the embouchure (as modeled by Jerry) and Superchops the method. The method keeps changing, getting redefined in more and more specific terms. Now there is a movement afoot to differentiate between "Superchops" and "True Superchops."

My book is much less specific, dealing with more universal principles. Some of these principles were inspired by Jerry Callet, for whom I continue to express my appreciation.

When my book does get specific in terms of how to do exercises, my "targets" (the end result of mixing complex motions) tend to be easier to hit than the SC complex coordination, which requires the tongue to be wedged forwards.

That said, I still support the SC basic concepts, in as much as I understand the current incarnation! BE is not SC. Even so, I am not aware of direct contradictions between the two, as Kyle has suggested. Rather, the Balanced Embouchure is a more indirect approach. I believe the easiest, most practical way to increase efficiency is to increase the lips range of motion, rather than prescribing a specific embouchure.

Actually, I'm more at home with Jerry's old book, "Trumpet Yoga." Kyle has posted - on the old forum - that my book is kind of like an update of Trumpet Yoga, which sounded reasonable. I valued his opinion on that, as I value just about everthing that he writes.

As many of you know, Kyle (tptguy) is the keeper of the SC flame, a member of a group of players, including Lee, Lex, Tom and others (sorry- I don't mean to leave anybody out) who are constantly working to make SC more accessable. I, for one, am glad they are here!

_________________
Jeff
http://www.trumpetteacher.net

[ This Message was edited by: trumpetteacher1 on 2001-11-16 23:05 ]

[ This Message was edited by: trumpetteacher1 on 2001-11-16 23:10 ]

[airegin]

i'm glad too!

[tptguy]

Hey Jeff, Good to hear from you, as always.

I don't think that I've said that BE is a direct contradiction of SC. I've said, "...the ways the tongue, lips, and air are used in each system are entirely different. And one will not train you for the other." For starters, as you've pointed out, SC uses the wedged forward tongue and BE does not. As a result of that, and other prime differences, the lips and air also get used and trained in entirely different manners. The movements, muscles, and coordinations are very different. Therefore, "one will not train you for the other." I just want people to understand they are not developing similar kinds of embouchures with SC and BE. And, of course, the systems are not trying to. They should both stand separately and on their own merits.

In respect to whether these different embouchures are actually contradictory (i.e. one tears at the other) I don't know of anyone, at this point, that could accurately attest to this - one way or the other. As a sample of one, I'm not ready to! Best always, Kyle

[trumpetteacher1]

Hey Kyle (and other posters on this thread),

Kyle, I should know better than to generalize your statements! You speak very specifically, which I appreciate.

Let me try again. In the grand scheme of embouchure development (if indeed there is such a thing) full of different approaches authored by advocates who claim that something is more important than something else - I think you must agree, Kyle, that SC and BE are more similar than different.

Also, it has been pointed out to me that when players start getting their lips to generally move more or less in the right direction by learning my exercises (see next paragraph), it's a tad bit easier then to tackle SC (or anything else, for that matter), instead of hitting it "ice cold."

Chops develop in funny ways. But many don't develop at all if the player doesn't change his or her lip position enough to "get over the hump" of inefficient positioning. That's what I mean by "right direction." I know that my belief about this may be considered controversial. All I can say is, after working with 50-60 students each week, at all levels of development, I am having 100% success using this philosophy and the physical BE exercises.

Thanks to everyone on this thread for your feedback about the book! I really appreciate it!

Jeff Smiley
http://www.trumpetteacher.net

PS Does anybody else out there miss the old preview page? I hate to keep clogging up my posts with "This post was edited by..." every time I misspell something (which is frequently).

[ This Message was edited by: trumpetteacher1 on 2001-11-18 13:40 ]

[_bugleboy]

Ok, FWIW. Here's a strictly limited knowledge perception of BE and SC.

It seems that the appearance of the embouchure is an essential element of the SC method. It is my observation that pictures of BE students are strikingly similar to SC students and especially the pic of Harry James used by Jerry Callet. This has been achieved by BE students who have done exercises and not tried to establish a certain look by observing in a mirror. I would think this would be enough to warrant further interest and comparisons by the SC enthusiasts. Here's a set of exercises (BE) that may benefit the SC student in his quest to develop this particular look in the embouchure.

[Horn of Praise]

Jeff,

Yes. I also miss the old preview page. I sincerely wish they would add that "bell and whistle" to this otherwise great "new" forum.
_________________
PAUL NELSON - Eclipse White Lightning / Getzen Eterna 900 Classic / Monette B4LD / Blue Juice

[tptguy]

<<<In the grand scheme of embouchure development, full of different approaches - I think you must agree, Kyle, that SC and BE are more similar than different. >>

Jeff, I wouldn't hesitate to say, at this point, that BE is the most "in-the-direction" of SC of any embouchure that I've seen. Because there are such fundamental differences between the two, I'm not prepared to say that they are more similar than different. But perhaps when I learn more I'll be able to agree. At this point, I honestly don't know.


<<when players start getting their lips to generally move more or less in the right direction by learning my exercises it's a tad bit easier then to tackle SC (or anything else, for that matter), instead of hitting it "ice cold." >>

From one that spent decades tightening the corners and pulling in all the wrong directions, I certainly agree that getting the lips going in the right directions is a huge and essential step forward. That's why I've said in the past that I think many/most people will gain great rewards from studying and using BE. I hope that readers realize that, even as I point out important differences btw BE and SC, I haven't changed my very positive opinion about BE one bit. Best always, Kyle



[ This Message was edited by: tptguy on 2001-11-18 23:50 ]