pedaltones

svenlarsson · New Member Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 9

I am not a trumpet player. I am a trombone player and teacher.
As a teacher I meet lots of trumpet students.
As a trombone player I do practice lots pedal tones, sometimes I hear a trumpet player blow pedal tones and what we trombone player call false positions notes. Those guys get a good sound on those pedals. They are good trumpet players.
Some of the trumpet students I meet (I don’t teach trumpet playing, but they are playing in my ensembles) produce low sounds, airy and unfocused, in the pedal tone range. If they were my pupils I would stop them and tell them that if the pedal tones don’t sound good, they wont do you any good for.
I like to say, if the pedal tones sound bad, it is better to not play pedal tones at all. What do you think?

Don Herman rev2 · Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:27 pm Post subject:

The easy answer: Make everything musical. However, we must all practice sometime... I practice pedal tones several ways; some sound better than others. They are outside the normal playing range, so I'd see what they are doing to sound "bad" and try to determine if that's a problem. There are plenty of very good players who don't "do" pedal tones.

My teacher had a lesson or two with Jacobs, and we do work on pedal tones. We do work on making them sound good, though "good" is relative... Pedal tones are good at teaching "big" air movement and relaxing the embouchure. Playing them to silence, while maintaining good tone, helps "teach" letting the lips move in the mouthpiece (in an indirect way -- focus on sound, not what your lips are doing).

Next! - Don
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dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

Pedal tones practiced and produced correctly can be a major plus in a players development. Done incorrectly without a full, healthy sound will be quite harmfull. The sound tells you if the air/embouchure connection is there, and will tell you when you are doing things incorrectly. Freely produced pedals with a correct embouchure sound right. Forced tones sound wrong. Going in and out of the pedals with one embouchure, smoothly and easily will also tell you if things are correct. A smooth slur from the regular range to the pedals then back without break and a full sound gives you what you want.

A player probably should not practice pedals if they produce them incorrectly.

svenlarsson · New Member Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 9

Thank you guys!
Just what I wanted to hear!

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

Don Herman rev2 · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:05 pm Post subject:

Well, we are talking about pedal tones... We're closer to his range!

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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

JoshMizruchi · Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:49 pm Post subject:

Pedal tones are like medicine, if you do them properly, they can help, but if you overdose on them like a lot of players do, they can make you "sick."

For me personally, pedal tones don't help. They're pretty worthless to me in the respect that have no effect on my playing whatsoever, unless I were to overdo them and suddenly my registers would not connect as well.

It would be stupid to say pedal tones can't help anyone, but from my experience they're also pretty over-rated.

trumpetgirl612 · Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:44 pm Post subject:

idk how much they help or hurt, but they sure a fun
and a great way to counter the infamous trumpet game
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RBtrumpet08 · Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:47 pm Post subject:

trumpetgirl612 · Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:57 pm Post subject:

no sir the other one
_________________
HI I'm a trumpet player, and I'm better than you.....

~*~
Olds Ambassador Bb
Bach 43 LR Bb
Schilke c from experimental period with CSO
Blessing Artist Series Flugel

I'll ognore you anyday baby

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

"HI I'm a trumpet player, and I'm better than you....."

For most players that have been influenced by the "Chicago School" it has more to do with music as a colaborative effort, not a contest.

mambopope · Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:18 pm Post subject:

I go down into the pedal range during my warm-up routine. It helps me alot because I try to focus my sound even more down there, it has helped my upper range alot. One teacher of mine even told me to practice a piece in the lower range if I was having trouble with it in the upper range, so I did part of a charlier etude down an octave and some of it went into the pedal range. It was awkward but it did help focus my sound when I took back up to normal range. Just my two cents.
Ariel
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chapahi · Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:20 pm Post subject:

The more one practices pedals the better they sound. I find it's the easiest thing to practice. Sometimes devote too much time on them. They only do so much.
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KevinPierce · Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:35 pm Post subject:

_dcstep · Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:03 am Post subject:

No one has mentioned double-pedals. I think that playing truly raucous double-pedals and then connecting them to the playing range by slurring up and down does some amazing things to loosen and move the embouchure forward.

Pops will scowl at me for saying this, but I think it's ok to let your bottom lip come out of the mpc when first learning double-pedals. Get the sound first. After a while you'll be able to produce the sound and keep the lip inside the lower mpc rim. The Balanced Embouchure book has a great set of double-pedal exercises and a CD that makes it clear how they're to sound.

There are also a couple of good demonstrations on some websites of TH member. Unfortunately I can't find the link(s). Maybe someone will give a hand in that regard.

Dave
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dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

I don't think Vincent Cichowicz would agree with you.

_dcstep · Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:05 am Post subject:

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

Mr. Cichowicz would not have agreed with you, in my opinion. In lessons he did not speak directly to the embouchure, but stability with the embouchure did come up in a clinic I heard him give. His approach to air flow and musical inspiration, developing one's playing with solid practice would not use those sounds generated by the trumpet yoga set up. Schlossberg, the Flow Studies, Clarke, Arban, Getchell, Charlier, solos etc. would develop your mechanics. The first exercises in Top Tones are more in touch with the Chicago school approach than doing double pedals the way Jeff describes.

_dcstep · Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:32 am Post subject:

Oops, I stumbled into the "Chicago School" by accident again. Sorry 'bout that. I wasn't meaning to stir up trouble.

BTW, the last two ITG Journals had worshipful interviews with Chicago School proponents William Scarlett and Vincent Cichowicz, both talking about their lessons and relationships with Arnold Jacobs. It was useful reading whether or not you agree with their thinking.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

Three of the finest musicians the world has ever seen.