Super Chops forum now private

Nicholas Dyson · Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2002 11:51 am Post subject:

WB: Just for the record Eric why dont you round up all of the so called bad stuff that the SC people say about Gordon and present it to me.

ND: I hardly think YOU have earned any right to have anything presented to you.

WB: Then I will show you that you yourself are on record more times at saying bad things about SC than all of the so called bad things that SC folks have "ever" said about Gordon.

ND: I learned that 2 wrongs don't make a right when I was 4. How 'bout you? Negativity is not something to be measured... it's there or it isn't. Doesn't have to be.

WB: Go ahead and take my challenge I will even include your outrageous misrepresentation of SC that you spouted off in TPIN last year for good measure.

ND: When you do, could we go ahead and post ALL the amazing misrepresentations contained solely in this one post of yours? You've cut a wide swath Mr. Bentley. Unsubstantiated mutterings that can't possibly be backed up? You betcha!

WB: As for Quad C and his so called double standard that he proclaims against SC is total not fair. I already dealt with him in the retraction thread about that.

ND: Dealt with him? ha. William doesn't seem an appropriate name for an enforcer, perhaps Guido or Tony the Hammer would be more appropriate. Give it some thought.

WB: The real double standard is being put on the SC people.

ND: The real double standard is being inflicted by the non-official SC moderators - like you.

ND: Mohan a MODERATOR goes and breaks every single rule in the debate forum in order to slam and make negative comments about SC which breaks the rules of being a moderator too by the way. After he gets away with that then he goes into the SC forum causing trouble. Just in an effort to make the SC moderator slip up and get on Mohans own level so Mohan could defend his pathetic NON MODERATOR LIKE actions that are frequently being pointed out by a few people.

ND: Read back on my posts about this, you'll be surprised to realize that we feel the same about this. Perhaps now I'm not such an ENEMY.

WB: The total insanity in the SC forum for Mohan to claim that he knows exactly what SC is because he has read posts and in the same thread he wonders why he needs the SC book and then says he does not understand how an SC embouchure can be identified. Get ready for this quantum leap! He of course would need the book!!!!! for the illustrations and other material if he already knew exactly what SC was then why could he not identify it. The SC forum moderator already pointed it out to him. This type of typical irrational way of arguing by Mohan is seen all over the forum.

ND: Again, you're saying what I've already posted. Wholeheartedly agree.

WB: Double standard you say?

ND: One John Mohan, Eric Bolvin or Bachboy does not a double standard make.

WB: Not to mention SC attacks by Locke, bachboy and others scattered around.

ND: Remember,Bachboy especially, and plenty of others have made their presence felt in FAR more forums than just SC.

WB: Frankly I would not blame Lee for leaving all together after all that Mohan has been allowed to get away with as a so called officer of this website its pretty sad.

ND: I wouldn't either, and that 'sad' bit sounds familiar somehow.... wait..... I've said that exact same thing in a myriad of posts regarding this situation.

WB: bachagain the dedicated forms are NOT a free for all like the open forum has become. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

ND: Check your tone sir. Bachagain is on your side in that he ALSO thinks it's disappointing that it had to come to this.

WB: THE SC FORUM IS BEST SERVING AS A SUPPORT GROUP FOR THOSE WHO HAVE AT LEAST GOTTEN THE SC BOOK AND UNDERSTANDS THE ILLUSTRATIONS AND DIAGRAMS AND DISCUSSIONS IN THE BOOK.

ND: The reason you have run into folks that don't get this is this: These people are not 'chop docs', and very well may have come from places like CG, where embouchure isn't nearly the issue as it is in SC. Having never been put into a situation where they had to think from that perspective, it takes some explaining. This, of course, is NO excuse for the other actions of folks like John Mohan et al, but can readily explain why completely unassuming folks, surfing the internet, interested in trumpet stuff could saunter in and start asking what it seems you deem stupid questions.

WB: I find that to be wise because most embouchure docs use observations as a key ingredient and have forever.

ND: I, for one, have never met a 'chop doc', and I've been around the block a time or two. A few months ago, or so, I was one of the meandering possibly interested who got the 'buy the book and video' speil. So I laid out the cash, and now have a book and video. Again, see above, as not everyone is so chops oriented.

WB: Why don't you lazy SC attackers go to the debate forum and prove to the trumpet world that observation is not a well known and proven means chop help.

ND: If someone was to win a debate in the Trumpet Herald Debating Forum, that proves it to the trumpet world? I suggest you purchase a bus ticket and see more of the world, as you have a remarkably skewed idea of what the trumpet world really is. TH is one resource. TH is fun. (usually!) TH is NOT the be all and end all for anything.

WB: As well as because so many people have misrepresented SC by not getting the written illustrated materials that leaving the posts in public to continue as a feeder for those only half willing to understand SC like John Mohan and other posters(including supposed esteemed members on this website) who are too lazy to get the book and participate in the SC forum for answers.

ND: I hope you aren't suggesting that SC is the first thing to be misrepresented in a form of media. Attacks and the like notwithstanding, SC is just the next thing that has been twisted and misconstrued. I truly hope you don't believe it will the last.

WB: Nick needs to show more respect and quit making a joke out of this.

ND: I give maximum respect to everyone. When someone shows they aren't worthy of it, it gets cut back slowly but surely until it's at the appropriate level. Very related to 'Do Unto Others.....'.

WB: Grow up Nick. You know absolutely nothing about nuclear fallout in the TH forum.

ND: I know absolutely nothing, because I haven't been in the same direct firing line of SC, and therefore everything I could have possibly seen, read, felt and thought is moot? An interesting proposition. I'd say that's pretty much the same as saying I can't play my horn because I have different experiences than other trumpeters. I'm thinking not so much....

WB: Posters have humored your smart mouthing off all the time about stuff that you don't fully understand or even bother trying to.

ND: Care to come up with some examples? You pushed Mr. Bolvin to do the same, so back up your gum-bumping with some real information. ANYONE, who knows me, or has taken any real amount of time to thoughtfully read through my posts understands that if I don't understand something, I will be the first to admit it. Does that stop me from posting MY OPINION? No sir. But, I do preface opinions on things I don't know about with that information. I'm very interested to hear what I know nothing about (other than SC, really) that you can set me straight on. After all, I'm here to learn right!? Please set me straight, or 'deal with me'.

WB: I think that the SC moderator was even willing to come out and help you pretty cheap (free as I remember) If transportation could be arranged.

ND: Absolutely correct! And he still is, mind you. Can I be the first to invite you to the Seattle installment of the Northern Brass Clinic? It will be sometime next February/March, and will include Bruce Lee, Lee Adams, and hopefully Rich Willey, Tom Turner and a bunch more of my Jawja Peach friends.

WB: He has done a bunch of FREE clinics where he went and worked reportedly to exhastion many times for FREE he took no door money at clinics or asked to be paid anything.

ND: This is no secret William. Lee has gotten to legendary status with many many people.

WB: He has not asked to be paid for what must add up to many many hours of work in here at TH. I have seen him spend countless hours in emails helping people who prefer not to post about SC but they know about SC because of this forum.
Not to mention that he is known to work the equivalent of two shifts in his business. So I can't say that I would not blame him if he were fed up with filtering out profanity attacks against SC, fed up with dead beat attackers not serious enough to get the SC book, fed up with major chaos breaking out when he is out of town like last week, fed up with people not obeying his civil and courteous requests for them to take their arguing into private, fed up with the loose cannons that are all over this very forum,.

ND: I am not surprised either. Again, I'm just disappointed, (in the attackers, et al) that it had to come to this.

WB: Why should I try to guess? he has already mentioned plenty of reasons here in the forum. Even many weeks before the latest rash of bashers he had posted in the SC forum that he was planing on returning to a private forum,but some people keep acting as if they have not seen it thinking that the whole going private thing is because of the recent little bash. WONDER OF WONDERS once again.

ND: Wonder of wonders? I guess the reason people are slightly confused about the situation is just what you've said. Lee was planning all along to make SC a private forum. But, most of the reasons given up till now have been about very recent events. Outlandish thoughts? No. A little confusing? You betcha.

WB: If using the SC forum is so important to bachagain then why don't you give the requested information. It's still a free exchange you have not been denied anything so slow down a minute and let your brain get ahead of your mouth before mouthing off in public how about it?

ND: This last sentence is excellent advice. Perhaps some you should take into consideration.

WB: If authentication of users can help to make a better learning enviroment then a private forum has done you a favor. Wow I bet you never stoped to contemplate such a concept before waggling that tongue in protest.

ND: Maybe you never stopped to think that you (other than Mohan and Bolvin) are addressing people that DO take part in the SC forum, even if just from a reading, or lurking standpoint. I'm hosting an SC clinic, Spanky has been (hopefully continues to be) a student of Lee Adams. Bachagain is a generous and thoughtful person who only really sought to voice his disappointment that SC HAD to go private because of the aforementioned trials and tribulations. If this is how you treat and speak to people on your team, I would hate to see how you treat your enemies.

WB: Maybe its because bachagain might be bachboy the notorious SC flamer who was attacking the SC forum with the non stop profanity.
hhhhmmmmm Bachboy proclaimed that he would be back and that no one could keep him out.
Sounds pretty logical that the name bachagain is a clue that he was bachboy and he has returned as promised. hhhhmmmm

ND: It's in your best interest to retract this immediately, Mr. Bentley. I, for one can vouch for Bachagain. He's not Bachboy. Hell, he's not even a boy. The thing I find funniest about this, is that you just made a 'John Mohan Comment' about Bachagain. You posted erroneous and unfounded information without having all the facts. Well, even one fact would have been good. Is this a 'do as I say, not as I do' situation? The irony is STAGGERING.

WB: Maybe that is why he has such a problem with providing such a simple thing as.
email address
real name
mailing address
phone number

ND: After all this, I find it highly interesting that you, William Bentley, do not have your email address at the bottom of your posts! Mine's there. You can even go to my website, if you like!

I suppose the most scathing thing you've said to me is that I'm not serious enough. First of all, I'm sorry I don't meet YOUR requirements, even though they are just that - YOURS. Second of all, you're not the first to accuse me of this. However, I keep EVERYTHING light. I am smiling constantly. CONSTANTLY. I play jokes, I tell jokes, and I laugh A LOT. I can see your problem with this, because when YOUR head is in 'a dark place', you don't want to smile. It gives you a mouthful of stuff you really don't want a mouthful of.

Dont' alienate your teamates, Mr. Bentley. It's not a bright thing to do.

_________________
Nicholas Dyson
Seattle, Washington

Edited for spelling and unclear quotes. Hopefully the point comes across a little clearer now.

[ This Message was edited by: nicholas dyson on 2002-08-29 21:36 ]

spanky · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Jul 2002 Posts: 535

WOW

tom turner · Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2002 7:09 pm Post subject:

This ever-lengthening thread is exactly why we took the forum private . . . to devote time actually working with "seekers" and helping people rather than:

1. Spending that time squabbling.

2. To avoid getting into mud-slinging with other fine folks with differing views.

In Congress, when an opponent wants to "kill" something, they do something called fillibustering and talk hours--days--weeks.

Look at all the posts on this thread vs. the ones in the same period on the closed SC forum (if you have access).

Not only is this not good "time management" for ANY of us . . . but a lot of fine people are starting to say things that hurt long-term relationships with other fine people. I value the friendships I've cultivated with folks on all sides. To me there ain't a side . . . its about helping others and enjoying the dialogue.

HEY . . . I'VE GOT AN IDEA WE CAN ALL AGREE ON . . . why don't we all "cool it" and go practice a little. One man started all this stuff that is causing the strife . . . not the rest of us. Thanks to all the voices of MODERATION on all sides of the issue! And we all need to demand that all modera-tors be moder-ate! We gotta get this thing back on track.

HEY . . . HERE'S A SECOND, EVEN BETTER IDEA . . .
Who is willing to forgive and ask forgiveness so we can all move towards making the forums an even better place?

Do I have any takers on BOTH sides?

I'll bet I do. There are some fine folks on both sides.

IT'S TIME TO MAKE THINGS "RIGHT!"

How about it? Who's gonna go first?

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

[ This Message was edited by: tom turner on 2002-08-29 22:12 ]

Quadruple C · Heavyweight Member Joined: 28 Nov 2001 Posts: 1448

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-09-20 00:01 ]

Shewhorn · Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2002 7:50 pm Post subject:

Jesus Christ went "first" and thank goodness He did.

spanky · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Jul 2002 Posts: 535

good post tom!!!

forgive me, if i've hurt anybody, sincerely, from the heart. and i definitely do not hold any grudges toward anyone else.

i'm in tom.

frank

Guest · Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:22 am Post subject:

Tom,

I think forgiving is a great idea. However, if those guilty of bad manners, personal attacks, and all of the other offenses against civil discourse don't stop their behavior, I don't think it will solve the problem.

If they won't desist on their own, the Herald administrator should remove them so the rest of us can enjoy this forum

Nicholas Dyson · Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:45 am Post subject:

I like the cut of your jib Turner!

The thing I'd like to point out is that in reality, we are all on the same side in this thread, some folks just didn't realize that, and attempted to squash a little SC support group made up of generally non-SCers.

I am still disappointed that the forum had to go private, though I understand the ideas behind it. It's VERY VERY VERY VERY difficult to stand in the way of something that is supported by Lee and Tom for such an obviously purely educational bent.

After all, it's ABOUT THE MUSIC!

_________________
Nicholas Dyson
Seattle, Washington

[ This Message was edited by: Nicholas Dyson on 2002-08-30 14:48 ]

spanky · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Jul 2002 Posts: 535

i think someones starting a club called ABOUT THE MUSIC, i think....hhhhmmmmmm

screamer · Veteran Member Joined: 26 Aug 2002 Posts: 191

Well, I've only been reading at TH for a few months, so I can't really comment as to how everybody has acted, but I really hate to see ANY of these boards go into a fully private status.

I believe it would be much more beneficial for everyone to be able to read the posts on the SuperChops board--Some of the older posts refer to something said or a link in the SC forum, and now that means the majority of the people won't be able to access it.

The problem could be solved just as easily by only removing posting rights, because us younger folk who haven't had much exposure to the multitude of teaching methods do spend an awful lot of time reading what you more experienced guys have written. I like to think it broadens our minds. Unfortunatly, I don't particularly like the hassle of having to get in touch with Mr. Adams, then having to wait before finally getting a reply; especially when the main idea of my wanting to be there was simply to read a post or two, not even contribute in any real way. I see that as a waste of my time AND of Mr. Adams' time.

From what I've heard about him here, I don't think I particularly want to be wasting his time. I'd rather he working on more clinics, as they seem to slowly be shifting in my direction.

Emb_Enh · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455

I am still waiting on Lee Adams to send me the promised password.

Roddy o-iii<O
_________________
Regards, Roddy o-iii RoddyTpt@aol.com

"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
BOOK 1 also... BOOK 2 + demo CD

[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

spanky · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Jul 2002 Posts: 535

me too.

, a month now.

pair of kings · Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 7:32 pm Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: pair of kings on 2002-09-13 07:39 ]

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

Lee Adams · Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:03 pm Post subject:

Lee Adams · Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:14 pm Post subject:

Lee Adams · Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:16 pm Post subject:

Emb_Enh · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455

Thanks Lee....I'll give it a shot now...
_________________
Regards, Roddy o-iii RoddyTpt@aol.com

"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
BOOK 1 also... BOOK 2 + demo CD

[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

spanky · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Jul 2002 Posts: 535

thanks lee.

Lex Grantham · Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2002 6:52 am Post subject:

I had to wait a few days in the beginning, too, but Lee WILL get to things just as soon as he possibly can. The man works VERY hard in his profession as a well-qualified HVAC engineer. He then spends what waking hours (often with little rest) to help all of us out with the SC ideas.

Just please be as patient as you possibly can. It can be worth the wait.

Thank you,

Lex Grantham