Inequities in our school music programs because of numbers..

[bandman322]

This is not about academics, but about our music programs.

Yesterday I spent the day working the 16th annual Louisiana Showcase of Marching Bands. This is a contest we put on to celebrate the fine work that is done by all of our young people who take part in marching bands. Each year 32 bands participate, and we have a waiting list of band that would like to come, but there just isn't time in a one-day festival to take any more bands.

As I watched the bands perform I thought about how unfair that the quality of a student's music education is so directly tied to the school he/she attends. Even if the school is great, if it is from a small town the band director is either someone who could not get a bigger school, or is waiting for a big job to come open and will make a move ASAP.

There are a few fine directors who chose to stay in the smaller schools, but most want to be in the 300-400 member programs. These programs also often have 2 or 3 directors and advantages that others don't have.

I was guilty of this, taking a job with 180 students my first year as a teacher, but 2 years later moving to a school that has 76 members, but had a potential to be a giant. Within 3 years we had over 300 members and eventually got up to over 400 members. I recognized the fact that there is a lot you can do with a monster program that you can't do in a smaller school. In the years I was at my second school, my first school had a revolving door through which 14 band directors passed.

I know there is nothing that can be done about this problem, but the fact is that quantity often brings quality. It's not hard to figure out that your top band will probably be better if you have 400 students to choose from rather than 200. How many middle schools can say they have 24 tubas, 60 trombones, and 40s? Your trumpet section is going to be pretty good when you have over 100 trumpet students. We had a second and third ensemble that was better than many schools top ensemble. My third performing band had 85 members. That's more students than my current school has in the entire 6th and 7th grade.

I'm older now, and I don't want a band of 400 -- I just want quality! I'm going to stay at my new school until these children have a performing ensemble that can play with the finest anywhere. I must say that I understand the fine young director wanting to move into the large program where they can make a mark on the music community. It's part of life, but a very unfair part in my opinion.
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[Billy B]

I think the quantity/quality thing is more a result of image than anything. There is a high school not far from here with about 300 kids in four grades. Their band pragram kicks most of the bigger schools in the area. The difference is the director. Not only his teaching skills but the expectations he places on the students, the school and the community. I find that only about 20% of the band directors I have contact with are competent. I find music ed students who are in their second year of college who not only are clueless as to what a ii-V-I is but can't even play the modes of the major scale. I find band directors who stopped learning the day they left college. You never see these guys at live music events. You never see them performing. I think it is a dirty shame that their peers don't do something about getting rid of these bozos. That is why the quality varies from school to school.
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Bill Bergren

[bandman322]

[screamer]

If band program's qualities were so dependent upon your sample size of students, then logically your third band should be at a fairly low quality, right?

But it isn't. I'm just a senior in high school, but I'm at my third high school -- and third HS band program. The first band had around 450 students involved (out of 2000), the second had around 20 (out of 600), and the one I'm currently in has about 150 (out of 2600).... So I've seen a pretty wide spread of both school and band spread. I am fully convinced that the band director (and others running the program) are the most important factor in the program's success.

You had a successful program because you're probably a great guy excited about music that can pass on that excitement to students. Any place you decide to go to and spend a few years teaching will see the program grow and improve. I feel confident saying that because, without fail, that is true of every good band director (assuming you are, of course ) I have met.

Success (in these cases) are of course all relative to kids joining band, liking band, continuing with music, etc.

A program's success in terms of musical performance and competition is completely dependent upon students, though. Nothing you as a BD can do if none of your students can play tuba well enough to cover the bass lines, after all. That's why some years sound better than others.

Yet a good program always sounds decent because of the director's abilities to pick music the band can play, teach it to them well, and perform it. That may not always win contests, but it keeps the community happy.

I don't really know how to say everything I want to about this, so I hope you're getting the gist of what I'm saying.

I'll just finish by saying, as a student, thank you.

[mafields627]

One thing I've noticed in Alabama is veteran directors from successful programs "retiring" for a year or two only to turn up in private business, at another school, or out of state. One of the ideosyncracies of Alabama's retirement system is that you can retire with 20 years and then go teach in ANOTHER STATE! So, you can probably guess where lots of folks are going (in all disciplines) -- Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee. The band directors in Alabama have done all there is to do -- I mean, when you've got 30 straight years of superiors at State Contest, what else is there? The lure of becoming an assistant at an out of state school and drawing a BETTER salary sometimes becomes too much to handle.

As for me, I would ultimately like to direct a college marching band; but, barring that, I would like to create a very successful program in a small town (the urban or suburban setting does nothing for me). You know the type -- the school where band is THE thing to do. Seems like they used to exist more in the past when students were better and it was a source of pride to be a teacher. The town had THAT band director that stuck around for 30 years. I wouldn't mind doing that.
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No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher!

[TonySwartz]

[bandman322]

[TrumpetersClarinettingSis]

From somebody who came from a smaller music program at high school (band in schools appaears to be a lot less recognised here than you guys are talking about) and is now finishing first year uni, ive found it interesting that throughout the year differences between peoples musical educations have evened out. Out of my friends in my course, some went to extremely music motivated high schools and had the best there was to offer, some were doing outside music programs from their schools, some like me werent from a big city until this year and hadnt had access to nearly as much band experience as some of the others. However, at the end of our first year, it all seems to have evened out a lot, with not a huge amount of musical difference between them. So whilst being part of a huge band program may be a great experience and teach you a lot, its not the end of the world if you're not in such a great program.

[plankowner110]

In general, large suburban instrumental music programs have the advantage of strong parent support, high expectations from parents for their students' success, the personal financial resources to provide private lessons for their kids, administrative support in the form of facilities, quality instruments, performance opportunities for the ensembles, and attractive teaching salaries.

When you have fifty or more students studying privately with good teachers, it certainly raises the performance standard of the program. You can't do all these things when you are a "one man/woman show" at a small rural school with little or no budget.
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https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763

[silverstar]

I think that the directors make or break the bands, as others have said before.

My middle school band director (who shall remain nameless) was the worst band director in the world. I swear, this person hated kids. She didn't like me because I actually knew how to play my instrument. My sixth grade year, our band was about 120 kids. In seventh grade, the band had been cut to a little less than half of that. My eighth grade year we had something like 18 people in the band. She was horrible....she would yell at people for no reason, she held grudges, she made no attempt to actually get the kids to enjoy the music. All she did was sit up on her little directors stool, wave her arms around, and yell at us. That's it. I learned absolutely nothing from her the three years I had her. I almost quit playing trumpet and ditched music because I thought that was what being in a band was all about. The only reason I'm still playing today is because my parents told me to wait until high school, and then I could make my decision to quit or not. Thank God I listened to them....

My high school band directors are both very good at what they do. I know that I've been very critical and bitter about them in the past...and there are somethings they do that I don't agree with, but the for the most part, they're both extremely good teachers. My jazz band director is really cool...it's so much fun to be in jazz band (I'm in the second jazz band) because you really learn a lot from him. He's amazing at piano....WOW. My Wind Symphony director is really good at telling us what we need to do and showing us where to go with the music. He also picks out really challenging stuff for us to play, and makes it really fun. Both of the directors are very dedicated to what they do and it shows. They respect the kids in their bands and in return, we respect them. They are also brutally honest about things. It's so cool to go and do a concert and be playing a song that we've all been working on together and seeing the huge smile on the directors face when we're finished....it's like, yeah, we id that. We took that piece and gave it our all. As a band.

Going from what I had as a teacher in middle school, to my directors now was like night and day. Good directors really do make the difference...mostly because they really know how to get the kids in their programs to put their heart and soul into what they're playing. They know how to encourage the kids and get them to play together instead of a whole band of soloists. Good directors know that to be respected and accepted by their band, they have to respect and accept the band. Without that kind of 'bond'....and ensemble really will fall apart....because there is no cooperation.

Ok...wow, that kinda turned into a rant there, but that's what I believe. I would like to thank all the band directors out there that understand the whole concept of respect and cooperation. You are the people that keep music alive...I really mean that.

Lara
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[oldlou]

My experience with band directors in school is somewhat similar to that experienced by Lara in middle school.

I went from elementary school where instrumental music was not taught to junior high,( middle school )where I sat second chair solo cornet to a senior in an eighty five member band. The teacher wanted to make us into the top radical marching band in the state. I went to another school on transfer to find a lazy band director who had no interest in teaching anything. He just wanted to conduct those selections that were assigned to him to have his band perform. If it were not for my grandfather and my dad teaching me and encouraging me to participate in the church orchestra, junior symphony, various ensembles, etc., I would not have been ready for college. A couple of summers at Interlochen Music camp didn't do any harm either.

I feel that I got cheated by a couple of band directors who didn't do their job of mentoring. I envy those kids that had dedicated band directors at the schools they attended.

OLDLOU>>

[vivace]

one of the big things our profs bring up in my ed class this semester is:

"who are you doing this for, yourself, or for them?"

that really gets me thinking.. I want to be a teacher for all the right reasons, I feel very strongly about music, and want to share this with everyone, save kids like music helped me out in my youth. But it really helps me focus thinking about what kind of a program to run, and focusing on the students needs and not what I want to do that will be fun for me.
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[Billy B]

What a great thread. I especially enjoy reading the perceptions of the students. One thing I think you will all notice about your favorite directors is their respect for the music. Working with you, the musician, transfers this respect to you and yourself. This is the real lesson in music education.
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Bill Bergren

[bandman322]

[Billy B]

Bill Adam's grandson came back from space camp with that one.
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Bill Bergren