Claude Gordon & The Orchestral Trumpeter

[CTrumpeter]

Hi all,

Just curious to see if anyone knows some orchestral players (or primarily classical) that studied with Claude Gordon. I have been delving into the book a lot lately and have really been enjoying the improvements

I want to make it clear that I am not asking this question facetiously or trying to say that students of Claude Gordon are just "high note players", as I know that much of his teaching stems from the teachings of H.L. Clarke among others, but I noticed that many of his best students went into a similar field of commercial playing, pit work, jazz, etc. Perhaps that was the case because of his own career focus and the musical environment in California at the time, or his students found that it set them up well for that line of work. I am just curious to see if there were known orchestral career players who studied with him too.

Thanks!

[Irving]

Susan Slaughter, former principal tpt of St. Louis Symphony.

[kehaulani]

I see no disadvantages to a classical player learning through Clause's system. It's pretty much conservative and covers everything an aspiring trumpeter would need for his/her development.

To answer the question directly, I worked with a French horn professional who studied personally with Claude.

There probably comes a time where players choose to specialize in orchestral or commercial playing and the curricula may become more specialized but until then, I see no drawbacks to using Gordon.
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[lipshurt]

I always thought that Marc Bedell of San Diego symphony studied with Claude. Not sure why I think that… we could ask him
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[spitvalve]

Fred Sautter, former principal trumpet of the Oregon Symphony, studied with Claude.
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[John Mohan]

Claude Gordon was not a "High Note" trumpet teacher, not at all. He created well-rounded players that could play anything from Orchestral (including previously mentioned Susan Slaughter and Fred Sautter along with many others) to Jazz (Don Ellis, Paul Cacia, Bob Berenson and again, many others), to Rock and Roll (think Harry Kim of the Vine Street Horns who toured with Phil Collins and with Earth, Wind & Fire, and Lee Loughnane the trumpet player for Chicago).

Quick edit: In the final years of fully instrumented show bands in Las Vegas, CG students represented the majority of the trumpet players playing in the showbands in both Las Vegas and Reno. For a number of years, every lead trumpet player on a major show in Vegas was a Claude Gordon student. In the original post here it is mentioned that perhaps the reason so many of Claude's students gravitated toward commercial work in showbands, pit orchestras and studio work is because that is what Claude did and that represented much of the available work on the West Coast (and in Vegas and Reno as well). I think to an extent, that is true. Personally, my goal was to become a Los Angeles Studio Musician which is why I sought lessons with Claude and moved from Chicago to Los Angeles at age 20 with my young first wife (what a Saint she was and is). More than anyone else, Claude Gordon is responsible for my career and success as a professional trumpet player. The only thing I had to do was practice what, how and when he told me to (with the caveat that "the only thing" included as much as 8 hours a day of practice on the horn).

You can also add me to the list (with the caveat that I am not in quite the same league as the forementioned Greats). Although most of my career was spent as a Studio Musician in Los Angeles playing everything from Orchestral to Big Band to Rock & Roll styles) and then as a Pit Orchestra musician in Europe and Chicago, I did sub in the Radio Symphony Orchestra Berlin (RSB) and auditioned for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra among other orchestral endeavors.

This is what Claude had to say about high notes:

[John Mohan]

[CTrumpeter]

[CTrumpeter]

[John Mohan]

[Jeff_Purtle]

There was another CG student in the late 80s or early 90s that studied with Claude and was principal trumpet in San Diego. Maybe someone can help remember that name if they look over my list, which reasonably complete.

Claude also taught one or two trombone players in the Saint-Louis Symphony but I don't know their names. Susan Slaughter mentioned that to me because when some of the others in the section noticed her improvement one or two of the trombones decided to take with Claude.

Susan said at one point some people said to her "What have you been doing? You sound so much better!" She thought it was funny but appreciated the compliment.

One of the things you can get from listening to her lessons on my site is hearing her improvement and her awesome attitude as a good student to do exactly as told. She told me the only thing she changed was to do an extra week of K tonguing instead of slurring with Clarke because she had never done K tonguing before studying with Claude.

I posted a link to her lessons on FaceBook and one guy wrote me a private message telling me how Claude got lucky that she played well later and that Claude sucked as a teacher and was over rated and charged too much. It was kind of a disturbing message. The guy changed his tune after I told him those lessons were after Susan had already won principal trumpet and was trying to improve more.

As you listen to her crash course lessons you can hear her not play so easily in the first lesson and she asks Claude about when she might be ready to play the Brandenburg. In the lesson you can hear she's good to maybe a High C or D and very concerned about the orchestra scheduling that concert. Another interesting thing was Claude didn't make a big deal about the high notes but told her to definitely not schedule anything that she can't play right now. And, he never promised she'd have a certain high note but a specific date. He was honest and optimistic but realistic too because he knew everyone progresses at different rates.

As you listen to the later lessons you hear her sound so much more free and she's much more powerful and high notes as not a concern later and she never asks questions like that in the later lessons. The lessons might at first seem slow and boring but if you look at the complete big picture you can learn some cool things from listening. It was all about how you practice and Claude points details out.

When I had her to my 2010 brass conference she had just retired from Saint-Louis Symphony 2 weeks before because she didn't feel she was playing at the same level to honor her position in the orchestra. She played at my conference and Harry Kim wanted to talk with her because her sound was gigantic and she's a short woman. I have never heard an orchestral player with as big a sound. I've heard Frank Kaderabak at the CG camps and he was powerful but Susan's sound was strikingly bigger in a different way. You can her her Monarch Brass Quintet recital on my YouTube but the sound isn't the same as in person. It was giant and full and bright all at the same time.

In the year or two after she retired I heard a couple people do various clinics and recitals and one guy told the audience that he would be auditioning. After hearing his recital I knew there was no comparison because his sound was just tiny compared to Susan. I believe we have some great orchestral players now but none really like Herseth and Kaderabek and Susan because they approached the trumpet from a more physical way that some people now. We are playing trumpet and not a clarinet and there is an excitement that comes out of the horn when we really blow. That's the reason I originally fell in love with trumpet and had to play it as a kid.

Get into this stuff and enjoy your practice. It's so fun.

Jeff
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[Jeff_Purtle]

Several other relevant items:

When I was studying with Claude I remember him showing me a letter from Timofei Dokshitzer thanking him for his books and how he used them in his practice regularly. Frank Kaderabek was Czechoslovakian and would visit Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union at the time when it wasn't possible to get many books into that country. At the CG camps I remember him talking about bringing books to his friends there and mentioning Timofei and another guy named Anatoly Selianin that Claude mentioned had come from the USSR to take some lessons in the past. I met Anatoly at the 2006 ITG in New Jersey and talked with him a good bit in the hallway about Claude and he mentioned that he showed Claude's teachings to Timofei and that he definitely used them. Timofei also taught Arturo Sandoval through some sort of connection between Russia and Cuba at the time.

Arturo is not an orchestral player but all the other guys are that and accomplished soloists too. It's all about just being a good trumpet player. Claude's teaching wasn't style specific but anyone that studied with him and got to the point of really playing the Aaron Harris Advanced Studies etudes or the Walter Smith Top Tones etudes or the long etudes in the back of Saint Jacome should be able to do just fine in an orchestra. Many people don't realize Claude took students through lots of French books published by Leduc. He was all about developing your skills and being able to play anything in any key.

Jeff
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MultiTouch book on Claude Gordon
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[trpt.hick]

Although I never studied with Claude, his books and exercises changed my life. My embouchure in high school was bad and none of my private teachers knew what to do. One recommended Claude's Systematic Approach book, so I ordered it.

I had no instruction on how to play the pedal tones correctly, so I did the best I could. I was not playing them correctly, so after a couple months of no improvement, I quit the book. Fortunately, I was accepted to the University of Colorado in Boulder (based mainly on my technical capabilities), but the bad embouchure soon became a big issue for me. I met a man in Denver who knew how to play pedal tones correctly (we happened to be on a gig together, and I heard him warming up with some great sounding pedals), so he gave me a few pointers. With his help I learned to play them correctly that day. Improvement was dramatic. Each day was a big improvement! Within a couple of months, my endurance doubled and my squeaky high notes became usable. After four months, my endurance doubled again, and I was soon playing well in the upper register.

When I taught at the University of Illinois (1974-82), I brought Claude in for a couple of days of master classes. Benge helped sponsor him. He flew his plane from Los Angeles to Urbana! We had a wonderful time. In addition to the large classes he gave, he spent 30 minutes with each trumpet student. I also told him how his book changed my embouchure without knowing I was changing it, and how the exercises built my range, endurance and sound. He said I was doing the pedals correctly, which made me feel good.

I agree that Claude's teaching and method can help many players, regardless of the style of music they perform.

Dave Hickman

[Jeff_Purtle]

Dave Hickman!

One of my best friends was Rich Hofmann and you told him to study with Claude after he didn’t get placed in grad school. He told me you said, “I’d put you in a room for a year doing Claude Gordon exercises before getting into ASU. Why don’t you study with him?” He moved from New Jersey to study with Claude and was 6 years older than me and like an older brother when I moved to LA and went to CSU Northridge. Rich was also one of six in the CG pedagogy class we all did for a year. I think he later did his doctorate with you in the last 10 years or so. I need to call him. Not sure if you remember telling Rich that.

Jeff
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MultiTouch book on Claude Gordon
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[trpt.hick]

Rich did not do his doctorate with me. I lost track of him.

[CTrumpeter]

[CTrumpeter]

[trpt.hick]

I have a couple of short videos on YouTube that explain what I went through. One is on pedal tones, and the other is on lip bends. They might be helpful.

[Jeff_Purtle]

I just remembered this:
There is a testimonial from Joe Alessi’s dad saying he used Claude’s books with his students and two sons. Ralph is a great trumpet player and Joe has been Principal Trombone of the NY Phil for decades. They might not teach the CG stuff now but you know some of what they started with.

A bunch of testimonials are on this page.
https://www.purtle.com/claude-gordon-testimonials-and-endorsements
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Jeff Purtle
Trumpet Lessons Online since 2004, teaching since 1983
MultiTouch book on Claude Gordon
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[andybharms]

As I understand it, it is really very physically focused. I’m of the opinion that playing orchestral trumpet is 90% aural (intonation, transposition, style, sound quality), and physical interventions can really get in the way if we are too excited about that sort of thing. So while maybe not hurtful per se, it doesn’t seem as relevant as other approaches, unless there is some specific problem that a player might have that the method explicitly addresses.
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