Teaching use of the 3rd valve slide

Strawdoggy · Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2002 12:36 pm Post subject:

As a band director starting in 1985 and trumpet player, I have heard quite varied approaches on how different teachers approach the use of the 3rd valve slide with students. I would be interested in hearing opinions on the subject.

With my band students in group/individual lessons, I usually don't discuss it until the student has a good foundation in tone production and a reasonable technique. My definition of a reasonable technique is being able to read various sixteenth note combination rhythms accurately, and having a good command of the chromatic scale. Of course, there is more to it, but that is it in a nutshell.

I have heard of teachers that teach the D just below the staff as 1 and 3 with the third slide out as the fingering. In other words, if the slide is not out, the fingering is incorrect. I know this is correct in a perfect world, but I just find that with little fingers and hands, it is enough just to get the hand position and fingerings correct without throwing in the variable of the 3rd valve slide.

Any other opinions? Why?

Steve

pfrank · Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2002 1:25 pm Post subject:

Don't most young students have student horns? Those things often don't have 3rd valve slides that are usable...
If a passage uses a 1/16th or 1/8th note passing tone D or C#, it's probably better to not struggle with the slide. It's when you SIT on a D or C# (or even a quarter note) that the slide needs to be used.

Erin C · Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2002 3:46 pm Post subject:

From the perspective of a student, it would have been nice if someone had told me from early on that I had to use the slide. Now it's just a new, stupid, bothersome thing that I have to do, and if I'd learned it right from the beginning I might not have thought that way, it would have just been a part of the fingering for low D and C#.

Erin -iii<
_________________
"If it is true that love makes the world go round, then of course there'll always be music to spark the romance of life."
-Rex Stewart

Strawdoggy · Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2002 5:11 pm Post subject:

Hi Pfrank,

<<If a passage uses a 1/16th or 1/8th note passing tone D or C#, it's probably better to not struggle with the slide. It's when you SIT on a D or C# (or even a quarter note) that the slide needs to be used. >>

Of course... that goes without saying, doesn't it? To be more clear, I am curious as to WHY some teachers choose to teach the 3rd valve slide usage right off the bat. Most student horns have a detachable 3rd slide ring which is adjustable to the length of the fingers. Still, most of these little guys struggle with the grip using the slide. I am curious about the philosophy that believes it needs to be taught right away. My experience has been that the slightly older kids pick it right up, where the beginners just get super frustrated. Most of the kids can't tell a note is sharp when they first start, anyway. Of course, WE can, but that is what patience is all about.

Steve

trjeam · Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2002 5:48 pm Post subject:

I was taught to use the 3rd slide for the D in the staff. That way I can play it in tune. Everyone should be taught to use the 3rd slide it's a important part of playing the D in tune and it makes a huge difference plus the earlier you start the more natural it will be later on.

[ This Message was edited by: trjeam on 2002-09-19 20:50 ]

pair of kings · Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2002 6:04 pm Post subject:

Nah, if I made them use the slide, then I'd have to use mine.
Seriously, it depends on how many other issues the student is struggling with. When I teach it I always try to get them to hear it, using chords on a piano, and compare high and low octaves on the B, C and D. I will use a tuner so they can see it. Even if they can't hear it, I figure it is part of ear training, once it is pointed out to them and they are aware of it, they will hopefully learn to hear it. I think maybe that is easier to do on a one-to-ne basis than class setting. Depending on how the D occurs in the music, I will some times let it go.
Another question on this issue.. Some times, say if a student is playing something in the Key of D, I will have them leave the 3rd slide out for the whole piece. I have been wondering if I shouldn't be teaching them this, so they will get proficient at using it.
BUT the other thing I run into ALL the time with a large % of students playing student horns, (which I am hoping to change) is that the slides on 1/2 the horns aren't even movable!