The jaw

DSR · Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:05 pm Post subject:

Hello everyone!

I need some advice. Here's my problem:

When I play trumpet my jaw always tires out far before my lips do. After half an hour of playing I literally can't hold it "out there". Also when my jaw is tired I begin to drop it, a definite violation of Reinhardt's rules. As a type IV, I can't have this happening! As soon as my control point and anchor point switch I'm toast!

Yes, I know I should do jaw retention. Here's what bothers me though: In his book Doc states something to the effect of "some fine players have built up the endurance to do the drill for thirty seconds". So can I! I can do the jaw retention drill for almost a minute, and yet when I play I can't hold my jaw out there for any reasonable length of time.

It frustrates me because my dad always nags me to do the drill daily, telling me how effective it is, and yet I don't feel like I'm getting much of a workout from it. Maybe it's because I don't do it everyday!?!? Could I be doing it incorrectly?!?

I'd love to get some input on this matter.

Thanks.

trptmaster · Veteran Member Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 146

My question for you is what does all of this sound like? When do you sound your best playing the trumpet?

In peace,

trptmaster

BeboppinFool · Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2002 9:18 pm Post subject:

DSR · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2002 10:34 am Post subject:

trptmaster,

I sound fine (good tone) until my jaw collapses.

- Brendan

DSR · Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2002 2:53 pm Post subject:

Thanks a ton Rich!

I've already started doing the drill when walking from class to class around the university. I'm sure my jaw is weak because I don't perform the rentention enough. Don't worry, I make a point of not overdoing it.

For interest's sake, my father also does his calisthetics when he's driving...that is if he is preparing for some playing engagement.

Thanks again...time to hit the practice room.

-Brendan

DSR · Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2002 5:56 pm Post subject:

Hello again,

I went to the practice room again today. I concentrated very hard on the sensations of my embouchure when I was tiring out. What I have discovered is that my teeth drift apart after I have had the horn on my face for more that half a minute, hence destroying the upper register. If I focus on keeping my jaw in the same position vertically my teeth drift together, cutting off the sound. My inability to keep the space in between my teeth the same at all times is greatly hampering my endurance. My range is there. For a very short period of time I can play Es and Fs..sometimes Gs.
But then after that very short while my range is completely lost.

My question is what Reinhardt exercise(s) should I use to find the right degree of jaw openness and keep the gap that same amount throughout my playing/practice session.

I have started doing the jaw retention drill....a little bit more every day.

Thanks so much for your guys' assistance! Sometime I need to get lesson.

-Brendan

BeboppinFool · Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2002 6:47 pm Post subject:

hairy james · Regular Member Joined: 25 Aug 2002 Posts: 93

Beandan, The answer that Rich gave you is basically correct. Doc would always say " The teeth should be set just as close as a good sound will permit." This is just something your going to have to watch, thats all there is too it. Many times I asked Doc how to break this bad habit or that bad habit and he would usually say "Just don't do it thats all." Are you sure you are a type IV, I mean any type can have any problem but the teeth opening is usually a downstream problem. I suggest you go to Paul Garret's Reinhardt web site and read Dave Sheetz's article called "Quirks of the types." As I told you before you can always e-mail me off the list and I'd be glad to help you anyway I can. You strike me as a real champion of Doc and I'm always glad to help people that are interested in finding out about the Pivot System. Anyway, got to go, I'm sitting here breaking a 102.5 fever and I'm sweating all over the key board. Good luck, Chris

trptmaster · Veteran Member Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 146

Can you explain a bit better some of the sensations you were getting with your embouchure. I might have some suggestions for you. Yes we all know that the teeth drifting apart kills the upper register but I have some really small changes in my bag of tricks that you can experiment with "behind the scenes" that might prove to be beneficial for your overall jaw and embouchure position and we might just get that drifting teeth situation straightened out at the same time! (no pun intended

) This all depends on the sensations of your chops and set up. Please give us a little more info!

In Peace,

trptmaster

DSR · Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 2:48 pm Post subject:

Quote: "Can you explain a bit better some of the sensations you were getting with your embouchure. I might have some suggestions for you. Yes we all know that the teeth drifting apart kills the upper register but I have some really small changes in my bag of tricks that you can experiment with "behind the scenes" that might prove to be beneficial for your overall jaw and embouchure position and we might just get that drifting teeth situation straightened out at the same time! (no pun intended ) This all depends on the sensations of your chops and set up. Please give us a little more info! "

Trptmaster,

When I am really starting to get tired and my teeth drift apart (or so it feels like) the entire red membrane of my lower lip begins to roll in more and more over the lower teeth, even in the low and middle registers. It feels as if I am losing embouchure buzzing firmness and my lips are swelling into the cup of the mouthpiece. If feel like a have to lip pucker (Reinhardt's definition...not the common idea of a pucker) harder and harder in order to get any notes to come out.

I should add that at any time during my progression of playing fatigue I find the low register very difficult to produce without the dropping the jaw. Would this be because I play significantly off to one side?

Thanks again,

Brendan

trptmaster · Veteran Member Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 146

Hold the phone DSR! Are you sure you are a true type IV? Who diagnosed this type for you if you don't mind me asking. It sounds like we could be dealing with an undercover IIIb here.

In Peace,

trptmaster

DSR · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 9:12 am Post subject:

I diagnosed myself. I am pretty sure that I am a type IV. When I play by bottom lip slightly overlaps the top. I have a horn angle that is perfectly horizontal and when I pivot the angle up (pull the mouthpiece and lips as one unit in a downward direction - Pivot Class. II) higher notes pop out of the horn.

I discovered something yesterday though. I decided to do some free buzzing while walking across campus. As I was holding this one pitch I discovered that I could only hold it for a certain amount of time before my lips were incapable of sustaining. I smell a really flabby lower lip! I also realized yesterday that when I play the range of motion of my lower lip is extremely limited. This could account for the flabiness. Free buzzing and the other calisthenics may be the key!

These are just some more of my thoughts.

Wilktone · Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 10:33 am Post subject: