Lip Buzzing

[bulos]

One of the more interesting things I learned upon reading Mr. Mendez's book is the major emphasis on lip buzzing which he describes as "loosening the lips." I studied the Donald S Reinhardt stuff and he was also a huge proponent of lip or "free" buzzing; "to firm a flabby chin and strengthen mouth corners" .. Armando Ghitalla is another; he credits practice of it to his comeback to better then original playing form after his heart attack when he was in his 50's. I also uncovered trumpet/cornet methods from the very early 1900's where lip buzzing is stressed, one book by Eby the other by Elias. It seems to me this is a largely forgotten approach to trumpet playing; does anyone out here besides me practice or promote it's practice to their students?
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[badebop]

Wierd story...I never lipped buzzed because it tickled to the point of being painful. Just recently my wife and I were malling and as usual I end up leaving her in the store while I go out and lean against the railing. As I was standing thre the urge to play a trumpet came over me and I tried to buzz my lips. Because I had just applied chap stick, I did it without it tickleing. I spent the rest of the day buzzing. Throughout the week and buzzed whenever I thought about it. I'd buzz until my corners got tired. I'd buzz and adjust the lips to find the optimum buzz. I found that my playing improved noticeably because of it. Do it, it helps.

[Tim W]

The story I heard on "buzzing" and Mendez is that before a new student was allowed to touch the horn, he had a required period of "free buzzing" followed by a period of mpc. only work. Then he allowed the horn to be brought on line. My first teacher used this approach with me. Did it help? Back then, I don't know- probably. I do know that when I started the "comeback" after 35 yrs. off, and went back to square one, it certainly did! Don't know how much it improved corner tension, but response and controlling slurs was amazing, for me. What brought the corner strength back in my case was "pencilling" and triple/ double tonguing excercises a coupla times a week. Also, too much lip slurs seemed to set me back, also.
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[bg]

Hi Paul,

Lip Buzzing-ABSOLUTELY changed my life. Clark Terry turned me on to
it , about 8 years ago. It took some time to figure out how to use it,
how to do it, etc.

I reccommend reading Reinhardt's book, and in particular, using
the exercise that he calls "walking in and out of the buzz". Also, he
suggests that one use only pitches above G in the staff. These two
tidbits contain the vital info.

Clark does it backstage before the gig. Always.

I'm "walking in and out" in the car , with the mouthpiece ,on the way to
the gig.

Reinhardt refers to the buzz as a 'corrective procedure'. I now understand
that it corrects many ineffiecient tendencies- most notably it reminds the
player to maintain a firm embouchure, and it prohibits the spreading of
the aperture, thus maintaining resistance and ease of production.

In discussions with Clark, it seems that this kind of exercise was common
practice and knowledge when he was coming up. Kind of makes you think...

P.S. Recently got a 24B at an antique store. What a player!

Brad Goode

[bulos]

Hey Brad!
How goes it? You hit it on the head, for me it has created a whole new sensation of playing....much easier and less effort. When everything is right a G above high C is as easy as a middle C., but now to own it! There are 2 other books from the early/mid- 20th century one by Eby the other by Elias that both stress lip buzzing. I find it strange it has been almost forgotten by most teachers. Hope al is well I ran into Ira at a benefit we did last month he still looks great.
Paul

[steve_fenick]

Clint McLaughlin recommends some lip buzzing in his books, and the Stamp book recommends it as well. Both seem to use it sparingly...a few minutes a day is plenty. I myself do a couple of minutes of lip buzzing early in my practice day to get things going.

[bg]

In the "different strokes for different folks" category:
(Watchyou talkin' bout, Willis?)

Clark Terry asked me to remove my mouthpiece while buzzing.
The lip buzz that came out was an octave lower than the mouthpiece
buzz. "That's the problem", he said. He described the low pitch buzzing,
with lips slightly puckered as "Trombone Buzzing". It took me two years
to figure out how to buzz the higher pitches, as I had been playing
with a loose embouchure my entire career. I kept calling him on the
phone, asking: "Is this it?" and buzzing into the phone. "No! Like this-"
he would reply, and buzz tunes like "Donna Lee", complete with doodle
tonguing. He recommended the Reinhardt book to me.

This was not the first time I'd heard about Reinhardt. Red Rodney used
to talk about him a lot. Red said that Clifford Brown asked him for
lessons in Philly. He told Clifford that he should see Reinhardt. I don't
know if he did, or not.( I do know that Clifford was a HUGE Mendez fan,
and reportedly, the two practiced together,once, in Mendez' hotel room.)
Over the years, I've worked with many fine lead players who were
former Reinhardt students, and sometimes between tunes, there'd be
a little lip buzzing going on.(Red used to practice with his Claude Gordon
book, one full page, every day.)

The "walking in and out of the mouthpiece" exercise requires that the
player maintain the same pitch. Reflexively, this encourages a tightening
of the corners, and a firming of the embouchure.

In Roy Poper's 'Guide to Stamp' book, he clearly says that in removing
the mouthpiece from the face, the buzz SHOULD sound an octave lower.
This is what Clark described as my major flaw. I know that Stamp produced dozens of killer trumpet players. Stamp also recommends
pedal tones, ala Mendez, while Reinhardt warns against them...

The higher buzzing was the missing puzzle piece for me. I'm working with
Curtis Fuller, now. Curtis has been playing on full dentures w/ polygrip
since his bout with cancer 15 years ago. The free lip buzzing has
been a HUGE factor in his successful return to performing. I've even
got Ira working on it.

P.S. I've also benefited from Mendez' technique of starting the day
playing just under the response point, and waiting for the response, rather than forcing it. I copped it from the "Rafael Mendez, The Legacy"
CD released by Summit. It reminds me of when I used to practice
whistle tones when studying flute.

Brad Goode

visit: www.bradgoode.com

[TaylorBarnett80]

I feel obliged to step in since no one else has yet and say that lip buzzing does not work for everyone. I think that if you have flatter lips (no protruding teardrop) it works better and certain types of embouchures respond better to it. I tried it and tried it but it is too different from my playing embouchure. Rex Richardson, who is one of the finest trumpet players in the world can't do it. In fact Rex's teacher in high school Dr. Dennis Edelbrock is a HUGE proponent of it but when Rex tries to do it, it is very different from his playing embouchure.

This is absolutely one of those things that works for some people and not for others. It is worth trying to find out.

Taylor

[bg]

I have the "teardrop" lip. That's why it was hard for me to learn to buzz.

Clark told me to use a "tuck and roll" embouchure. He said to tuck
my upper lip, and roll my bottom lip over my teeth. At the time, I
thought this was the most ridiculous suggestion I'd ever heard, as
I had already studied trumpet with Cat Anderson, Vince DiMartino, Chris
Gekker, Ray Mase, Bill Adam and Arturo Sandoval, and had more
than a few success stories among my own students, and had never
heard anything REMOTELY like this.

I'm telling you guys, honestly, it completely changed the way I played,
and called into question everything I thought was sensible and right. I
used to go around Chicago telling everyone NOT to buzz their mouthpieces, as most of my teachers didn't do it or endorse it.

I began practicing integration of lip buzzing, mouthpiece buzzing and
flexibility studies on the horn. I found that the transition between lip buzzing and the mouthpiece buzzing could be made easily, but the
transition to the horn from the mouthpiece seemed too drastic.

I decided to try playing with the mouthpiece sticking partially into
the receiver-kind of a mix between buzzing and using the feedback
of the horn. The less backbore length enters the receiver, the more
active you have to buzz, and vice versa. Through experimentation
with different types of plumbing bushings, purchased at the hardware
store, I came up with an exercise system based on progressive transition
from free buzz to horn.

I showed it to Vince DiMartino, and he's become completely obsessed
with it. He feels that it has made him a lot stronger and more efficient.
Vince had a guy in Germany make him a device, with clamps and rods,
that allows him to do my routine without the plumbing parts. He said he
was calling it a "Bradley Device".

In my teaching studio, I found another benefit to the plumbing bushing.
When it is placed on the mouthpiece, the player must hold it to either
the top or bottom of the receiver with the angle and weight of the
instrument. Some hold it to the top, others to the bottom. The advanced
players can ascend and descend without shifting the angle. Those
who shift going into the upper register are suffering from what Don
Jacoby referred to as "playing on two embouchures". I find that the
bushing helps me to diagnose this issue in a student quickly, and also
provides a clear way to correct it. Many people have since benefited
from the results. Check out MAD-DOG, currently playing with Jazz
Mandolin Project. This was the magic wand for him, much like tuck and
roll lip buzzing was for me.

I know this is the Mendez forum, not the place for my views. I'm just
very passionate and excited about this particular subject.

P.S. Rex studied with me for several years after he finished college.He
HAS become a great trumpeter. When I was teaching him,
I wasn't yet into buzzing. He was trying to show me how Chicowicz
had him buzzing his mouthpiece, and I was telling him I didn't think
it helped anything. Just goes to show you, we should LISTEN to our students!

BG

[oj]

BG,

Thanks for some very interesting info!

Paul said this in his first post here:

[trpt.hick]

I am not aware of any place or time where Mendez professed lip buzzing. He did advocate mouthpiece buzzing as an exercise (in moderation). But, on the other hand, I do not know of any time when Mendez discussed lip buzzing at all. So, it is difficult to say whether he liked it or not.

DH

[John Mohan]

The only time I ever have a student lip buzz is at his or her first lesson, just before he or she buzzes the mouthpiece for the first time if he or she is an absolute beginner. Then I would have that student buzz the mouthpiece just a little to get the understanding that he should vibrate his lips, not just try to blow air through the horn. My next step is I have the student whistle from a low note to a high note to get the feel of how the tongue needs to arch up and forward in the mouth to make the note go higher (from "ahh" for low notes to "eeee" for middle high notes to "sssss" for very high notes - the movement is the same whether whistling or playing a brass instrument). Then I would have the student buzz his mouthpiece and make "sirens", going from low tones gliding up to high tones to get the feel of how the lips and the tongue must move and how he needs to blow a little stronger for the high tones. I find this works much better than trying to explain in words what the lips and tongue should do.

At this point, my student is usually done buzzing his lips or mouthpiece for the rest of his playing career. I do sometimes resort to the mouthpiece "siren" buzzing with intermediate students during a lesson, but only for a few seconds to help the student get the feel of how his lips and tongue should move and how he needs to blow a little stronger to make the note go up or down. But this is only when the student is having trouble on the horn or has built up a bad habit, such as raising the back of the tongue into an "ich" position and choking/closing off the back-of-the-mouth/throat area. I find that sometimes getting the horn out of the equation for a few minutes can help to attack and defeat such a bad habit.

Other than the above scenarios, I just can't see the value of taking time that could be spent practicing the trumpet and spending that time buzzing a mouthpiece or just the lips. Nobody ever got paid a dime to buzz either one. We're trumpet players! Will it hurt you? Probably not. Will it help you? Probably not as much as spending that time practicing your trumpet will.

Both my teacher Claude Gordon and his teacher Herbert L. Clarke were very much against buzzing mouthpieces or lips as a standard practice routine. They both felt that it promotes being overly "lip-conscious". Both of these men felt that brass players are better off forgetting about their lips and doing the proper routine practice that will allow their lips, embouchures, tongues, fingers, and breathing muscles to develop until they work correctly by habit. I agree with them, as my own experience with my playing and my students' playing has proven to me they were right.

Sincerely,

John Mohan
http://mattgraves.netfirms.com/john_mohan.htm
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Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student

[TrpPro]

[John Mohan]

[TrpPro]

[John Mohan]

Well, then if you feel it helps, go for it!

Best wishes,

John

[shagnscooob]

this is a really fascinating thread.

ill share my experience of taking a lesson with bobby shew recently. he totally supports lip buzzing and mouthpiece buzzing. he advises they do this free buzz thing for about 30 seconds 5 to 6 times a day. and his warm up has mouthpiece buzzing as the first thing.

something i think a lot of this thread is missing is that buzzing helps develop muscles, not just show them what to do. buzzing on a mouthpiece has way more resistance than buzzing on a trumpet, and buzzing without the mouthpiece is even harder. so when you buzz w/ or w/o a mouthpiece, it helps build strength in the muscles KEY to playing trumpet.

and yeah you could build the same ones ON the trumpet, but you could also get built by doing push ups and sit ups all the time, it would just take forever.

ive been buzzing a bit recently, and my playing is definitely taking a leap after having plateaued for a few months.

[trptdoc]

Claude Gordon and Herbert Clark definitely wanted to help the student not become too focused on what the lip is doing. I am however, after a lot of years with the horn on my face 3-5 hours a day, convinced that the lip is doing some pretty important stuff and that advanced players can benefit from paying careful attention to the lips, especially during practice.

The aperture size and focus of the "aperture tunnel" are all fine lip-muscle control. Buzzing correctly for very short periods can help both these areas. I discoverd a whole new world of open altissimo playing after Bobby Shew pointed this out to me. I've seen great leaps in short time with my students by doing a little daily focused buzzing.
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"Big Breath Chest Up", "Hit 'Em Hard and Wish "Em Well", " Take It Farther than I Did"

[oj]

In the correspondance between Herbert L. Clarke and Fred Elias, Omaha, Nebraska (the man behind the method: "Complete Elias Buzz System" ) one can see that Clarke was into buzzing in his last years. He had problems with his teeth and I guess he wanted to try all things to see if he found a solution.

Ole

[oj]

Doc,

I have question for you:

Do you see any connection between Bobby Shew's breathing technique (6 step) and Clarke/Gordons: "Chest Up" ?

Ole