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Voltrane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 630 Location: Paris (France)
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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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I forgot: I was also told that the serial number at Couesnon were given "by workshop and by period".
Indofunk, this could explain thatyou could have Serial number and letter related: a guy in a workshop took care of this, another did not... and you can have horns without anything...My own C Couesnon have neither letters, nor serial number...
Marc |
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MikellB New Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2010 Posts: 4 Location: Houston, Santa Barbara
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:03 pm Post subject: How about a little poll re: Couesnon versus other Flugels? |
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I noticed at least one person has replaced his Couesnon.
How many players with Couesnon experience think it's the best?
Which other horns in the $1,500 - $2,500 range are better?
Thanks for your input.
MikellB |
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Flugelnut Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Posts: 478 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:40 am Post subject: |
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Last week I acquired an old flugel that is the spitting image of walteriano's 126, except for the straight-through valve bloc.
Mine has the standard valve port layout, but bracing, valve caps, finger buttons, and pinky hook are all identical.
My "problem" is that the bell is stamped as follows:
Artist (in Italics)
FABRICATION FRANCAISE
F. BESSON
PARIS
MADE IN FRANCE (tiny lettering)
I did know that Couesnon purchased the French Besson company in 1957, but wasn't aware that they marketed their own horns under the Besson brand name.
The horn probably dates from the early 1960's which would make it possible.
It obviously has not lain idle over the years, but it plays like a dream.
All good things said about Couesnon flugels do apply and it is even in tune with itself (low C# and D exepted).
Has anyone ever heard of such a Besson/Couesnon flugel?
Btw: the valve casings are stamped 1, 2, and 3 on the left, the 2nd casing has a B on the right. The mouthpipe clamping ring is marked A1.
There is no serial number.
I'll try pictures later. |
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Flugelnut Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Posts: 478 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:33 am Post subject: |
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The only way I could figure out to get you some pictures of my F. Besson (Couesnon?) flugel was to go through my daughter's business website.
Go to www.koekelijn.com, choose the English language page and click on the small purple dot at the bottom left side.
You should see 3 pictures of the old horn, your comments are welcome.
I hope the moderator doesn't throw me off the forum because of these blatantly commercial activities. |
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Flugelnut Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Posts: 478 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, there should be no comma after www.koekelijn.com |
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Voltrane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 630 Location: Paris (France)
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Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Hello,
Flugelnut
I found this on the net:
http://www.dallasmusic.org/gearhead/Couesnon.html%20
and specifically:
"At this same time, prior to the war (Marc:WW2), the Couesnon trumpet factory in Paris was located right next door to the F. Besson trumpet factory, where the premiere trumpets prior to World War II were made. Curiously, the Couesnon trumpets of the time look virtually identical to the F. Besson models".
May be is it the same for Flugels? A kind of business agreement to improve productivity? If this is true (I am talking about the Couesnon trumpet identical to the Besson'ones)...because I am a little suspicious regarding this page (for instance 2 obvious mistakes: Couesnon Monopole Conservatoire were not made in the 60, they already are included in the 1934 catalogue, B. Soustrot never won the 1976 Maurice Andre competition... that was created in 1979: the first French winner was Guerrier in 2000). So take this cautiously...
Regards.
Marc |
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Flugelnut Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Jul 2004 Posts: 478 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: |
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Merci, Marc.
The Dallas Music site appears to be correct about Besson and Couesnon being neighbours at a time, though.
www.angelfire.com/music2/thecornetcompendium/manufacturers_c.html says they were located at 94 and 96 Rue dAngoulème in Paris, so they may have shared designs, especially when Besson became Couesnon's property. |
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Indofunk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 566 Location: NYC
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, so I finally got the French ("Couesnon") taper Curry I ordered from Mouthpiece Express, and it doesn't fit? Rattles around in the leadpipe, not as much as my Bach mouthpiece, but still very noticeably. Can I assume the leadpipe somehow got reamed for a non-Bach Morse taper (I think that's called a large Morse)? Or is it possible mouthpieceexpress screwed up my order (mouthpiece is stamped 1.5FLD-F)? Could the markings on the leadpipe (S Bb T1) hold any clue?
Predictably, I like the sound of the Curry, but the range of the Bach _________________ http://satish.bandcamp.com
http://urbanjungle.bandcamp.com
https://www.facebook.com/TheNevermindOrchestra
My main horns:
Conn 38B
Holton Firebird
Firebird demo |
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Jon Arnold Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2025
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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I bought a used Curry mouthpiece for my Couesnon and it fits just fine. |
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Voltrane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 630 Location: Paris (France)
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Hello,
the same for me. I ordered a long time ago (but directly to Curry) a mouthpiece for my Couesnon and it was ok.
Regards.
Marc |
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Indofunk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 566 Location: NYC
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Voltrane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 630 Location: Paris (France)
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Hello,
mine ends with Fl...But as it was a customized mouthpiece order, I do not known whether it is the "common" rule or not.
Marc |
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Indofunk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 566 Location: NYC
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kenagy Regular Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 16 Location: usa
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Adding my Couesnon Flugelhorn info:
COUESNON (Big C goes around O)
PARIS
MADE IN FRANCE
806XX
A (stamped on 2nd valve, right side)
1, 2, 3 (stamped on valves, left side)
Bb (stamped on receiver, left side)
No other markings. Bought used and don't know when it was new.
Modifications: I have an original leadpipe and Charlie Melk leadpipe (which improved resonance). I also had a third valve slide put on for ease of D and C# intonation, of course.
I use a Denis Wick 4F mouthpiece.
Plays great in brass band and jazz, always get good feedback and questions from people on this instrument. Wouldn't trade it. If you have more info, let me know. This is a great thread going here. |
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Voltrane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 630 Location: Paris (France)
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Hello,
Kenagy, no number model on the valves?
Mystery in the mysteries...
Regards
Marc |
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kenagy Regular Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 16 Location: usa
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Voltrane,
Nope. No other markings on valves or anywhere.
Where would these other marks on the valves be, I wonder?
Best wishes from Boston and I enjoyed reading your posts on this subject. |
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jimmyjazz1968 Veteran Member
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 343 Location: Long Island, NY
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Kenagy-this sounds like the same horn I bought in June! I have the melk leadpipe and am currently using a giardinelli flugel piece (12fl). This horn is fantastic. I don't have the 3rd valve tuning slide. Also, the receiver says Bb (on left side) but mine also says "31" on top of the receiver.
kenagy wrote: | Adding my Couesnon Flugelhorn info:
COUESNON (Big C goes around O)
PARIS
MADE IN FRANCE
806XX
A (stamped on 2nd valve, right side)
1, 2, 3 (stamped on valves, left side)
Bb (stamped on receiver, left side)
No other markings. Bought used and don't know when it was new.
Modifications: I have an original leadpipe and Charlie Melk leadpipe (which improved resonance). I also had a third valve slide put on for ease of D and C# intonation, of course.
I use a Denis Wick 4F mouthpiece.
Plays great in brass band and jazz, always get good feedback and questions from people on this instrument. Wouldn't trade it. If you have more info, let me know. This is a great thread going here. |
_________________ James Ingenito
New York
www.jamesingenito.com |
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kenagy Regular Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 16 Location: usa
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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oh yeah! mine also says 3 on the top of receiver |
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kenagy Regular Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 16 Location: usa
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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kenagy wrote: | Adding my Couesnon Flugelhorn info:
COUESNON (Big C goes around O)
PARIS
MADE IN FRANCE
806XX
A (stamped on 2nd valve, right side)
1, 2, 3 (stamped on valves, left side)
Bb (stamped on receiver, left side)
No other markings. Bought used and don't know when it was new.
Modifications: I have an original leadpipe and Charlie Melk leadpipe (which improved resonance). I also had a third valve slide put on for ease of D and C# intonation, of course.
I use a Denis Wick 4F mouthpiece.
Plays great in brass band and jazz, always get good feedback and questions from people on this instrument. Wouldn't trade it. If you have more info, let me know. This is a great thread going here. |
In addition, it also says 3 on the top of receiver.
Peace |
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cyber_shake Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 769
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: How about a little poll re: Couesnon versus other Flugel |
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MikellB wrote: | I noticed at least one person has replaced his Couesnon.
How many players with Couesnon experience think it's the best?
Which other horns in the $1,500 - $2,500 range are better?
Thanks for your input.
MikellB |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I know this was asked quite a while ago ... but I felt like responding...
you'll see my (past) queenie posts on the first few pages of this thread. after close to 30 years, i sold my near mint queenie after receiving TLFL #801 from Roy Lawler. The TLFL's intonation was a lot better than the Q and having a 3rd slide trigger was also nice. Since I didn't think I needed 2 flugels, the Q was listed and sold quickly (for more than the $340 I remember paying in the '70's). After a while, I decided that the TLFL was better but not what I really wanted. I now have a Brazilian-made Weril Regium and it very much reminds me of the sweet sound and feel of the mighty Q. Only now I have better valves, better build fit-n-finish + way better intonation. If you get a chance to try the Weril, they are a steal for the price, which I've seen under $1K. Of course there are other options and good horns ... but the little Weril is a keeper to me.
Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth. Now I feel better. _________________ Blaine
brasshurricane@gmail.com
Schagerl LU5A
DaCarbo Unica
Adams A4 LT-S
Adams F1
Schagerl PT-200S |
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