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Nick Mondello
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Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 166
Location: Locust Valley, NY
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 Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:19 am Post subject: Lip/Face Firmness |
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I'm having a hair of a snag on pitch starts and attacks. Air and support are there.
Question:
At the exact moment and instant before the mouthpiece actually touches the lips, what is the suggested "level" of lip area firmness? I've read in Stamp that it should be "buzzing" firmness. I interpret Pops as "G" above staff firmness.
I know there are conflicting theories re: corners, however, I'm interested in knowing what the general TH consensus is on how firm the OVERALL "south of the nose and north of the chin" setting should be the instant before flesh touches metal.
Thanks!
Nick |
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TWEAK
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Joined: 20 Jul 2004
Posts: 416
Location: Albany, NY
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| let the air blow the embouchure into place. |
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Nick Mondello
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Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 166
Location: Locust Valley, NY
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:56 am Post subject: Lip/Face |
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Tweak:
Thanks! I read you. Can you amplify, please? Are your "chops" firm before face touches mp?
Thanks! |
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Nonsense Eliminator
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Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 5212
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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When playing the trumpet, I'm not sure I'd ever want my chops to be as firm as they would be when buzzing the mouthpiece. I also wouldn't want to be searching around for some aribtrary degree of tension prior to playing. When I play a note, and no sooner, my chops react to my mental image of the note I'm about to play, and that is the sole source of any firmness in my embouchure.
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Richard Sandals
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swthiel
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Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 3967
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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I read Stamp's brief comment and Poper's comments about this to point primarily to eliminating the need for a lot of adjustment one the mouthpiece is in place. In a paragraph about mouthpiece buzzing: | James Stamp wrote: | | ... What pressure is needed is added after the breath. This applies also when playing the instrument. This has proven to be a most important point in my teaching. |
Poper's comments on the subject are: | Roy Poper wrote: | | Stamp was specific with his students about mouthpiece pressure. His concept was: No pressure of the mouthpiece on the lips until the breath was finished, the lips were closed and slightly puckered, and the player was blowing against the tongue (i.e. using the tongue as a valve). Then one was ready to put the mouthpiece on the lips and release the air. He insisted that the player breathe in tempo. ... Putting the pressure on the lip only after the lip is ready ready for the mouthpiece should automatically improve the endurance of any player. |
I read these to mean that one shouldn't have to make a lot of manipulations or adjustments to the lips after the mouthpiece is in place. I know that I occasionally get a "bad breath," and I realize in retrospect that the issue is that my lips weren't in the right position when the mouthpiece went back in place.
If I want to screw up my playing a lot, all I need to do is think about embouchure details -- position, tension, firmness, etc. I'd encourage you to try de-emphasizing your thinking about "how firm." Try letting your body figure out how to get the results you want.
To address the presenting issue in this thread (pitch starts and attacks) ... your post suggests that you think the problem is a result of the timing of the various events the lead to the attack. Rather than thinking about such details, you might try working some breath attacks into your daily routine. If you're doing the Stamp exercises, try #3 starting each slurred section with a breath attack instead of a tongued note ... but be sure to stay in rhythm. You can do the same thing with Schlossberg or Irons or the Chicowitz flow studies.
Or, you could consult your teacher ...
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Steve Thiel |
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deleted_user_fdb91a0
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Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| The lips should be relaxed before, during and after playing the instrument. Everything inside the mouthpiece is totally relaxed, everything outside just supports. |
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