lesson with Caruso

[B6L]

I have been using "getting Started 1" with my students and having wonderful results. I was wondering those of you who studied with Caruso, how would he conduct the lesson?.....meaning ,would you walk in the door play 6 notes,2nds,LSL etc.........your whole lesson as you would play it "at home" .Or would he just listen to bits of things and assign and listen to new things?
Nate
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Freedom lies not in conforming to the world's expectations or even realizing what we take to be our deepest wishes; it lies in following the call in our lives.

[maynard-46]

Nate,
I took lessons from Carmine for 4 years...1968-1971...He had us do EVERYTHING...starting with the 6 notes through intervals, harmonics, pedal tones, etc! Everything you were assigned. It took at least an hour to go over them and for him to assign new material. I also used the exercises with my private students and still do..with great results. In fact...for 4-5 years I used them with my entire middle school band! It was a long time ago but I believe Carmine had his basic exercises published in a band format book...i.e., flute, clarinet, trumpet, etc. Good luck and keep doing them!

Butch
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[PH]

Like Butch, I recall that Carmine almost always had me play everything from that week's assignment. Sometimes he also had me play a few new things from the upcoming assignment,

Lessons would be as long as they needed to be. Early lessons were only 20-30 minutes. That was how long it took to be sure I understood the approach to the studies and played through my 2 or 3 exercises. My last few lessons would be 1.5 hours or more and he would have me play most of the day's intervals, tonguing studies, the pedals, clarinet book work, etc.

[Pedro]

Bill and Butch,

How did you both (or others for that matter) work in the 20 minute rest reccomended after a series of exercises during your lessons? Was this perhaps lecture time or something along those lines and then continued?

[_bugleboy]

The following are transcribed words of Carmine during a lesson with my playing activity noted. Carmine knew he was being recorded and knew that I wanted him to expound.

http://trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=3104&forum=20&2

http://trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=3106&forum=20&0

During my lessons, the 20/20 rule was not necessarily adhered to. I don't remember, specifically, playing consecutively longer than 20 minutes at any time, but it could have very easily happened. I didn't give it any thought at the time, and would have probably had little concern for it even if I did.

My lessons during the first two years, would routinely go beyond the allotted half hour. I especially loved it when a cancel would come in while I was in the chair and Carmine would just let my lesson go for an hour. He would much rather be teaching someone than sitting there waiting for the next student to arrive. After a couple of years, the lessons got closer to the half hour mark and when they started running a little less than 30 minutes, I knew the urgency of the earlier days was becoming less.

Carmine talked a lot when I first started studying with him before I would play. Explaining everything in a positive way. He might abbreviate exercises to save time, if he was satisfied with the way I was playing them. For example, during lessons I eventually wouldn't do the second blow. He listened to Clarke for a period of lessons and then just let me go on my own with the pattern that had been set up by him. See,

http://trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=3765&forum=20&5

All of Carmine's efforts, as far as I could tell were to teach the student to be able to teach himself and carry on with out having to come to W. 46th Street to see him: to make the student totally self reliant.

[maynard-46]

Hi Pedro,
I agree with Charles...Carmine always talked between the exercises you played. Sometimes more than others if he detected you were not happy with the one you just played! He was always positive no matter how you sounded. I think his method also evolved and he added, changed and deleted things along the way. I also went to him on 46th St., like Charles, but when I studied with him the 6 note exercise was T-T-B (tongue/tongue/breath)...as opposed to his book that he published later on which shows B-B-T. I also didn't do any Clarke stuff like Charles did (maybe he was more advanced?). I think the only nerve-wracking thing was if there were 6-7 other trumpet players in there and Carmine would say...OK, Butch...in the chair! These guys are sitting 4 feet way from you staring at your every move...and you KNEW you were going to sound terrible!!! The only consolation was in the fact that YOU knew that when it was THEIR turn they were going to sound just as bad!!! Remember that experience/feeling, Charles!?! It definitely was well worth it because it was a good time in my life , made possible by a GREAT man, that I will never forget!
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TRUMPE: YAMAHA Lacq. "Shew Gen II" / Legends .585 "CatMaster" Top / KT "TKO" BB / Reeves #5.75 Sleeve.
FLUGELHORN: ADAMS Custom "F1" / Legends .585 "CatMaster FL.

[PH]

My 6 notes were always B-T-T (like in MCFB). I think he gave the studies in different ways to customize them for individual students. I always did them as two half-notes and a whole note, although I know he did other rhythm durations with some students.

He would almost always talk a bit between exercises. This was epecially true if I was becoming frustrated. Then he would be encouraging and help me reframe my orientation from judging my playing to immersing myself in the process. Sometimes the only way he could cool me out emotionally was to distract me. Then we'd talk about restaurants or baseball.

In terms of actual instruction, he would keep that to a minimum. The exercises do the fixing, not the teacher or the student. He would call my attention to one of the four rules...especially if I was struggling. He'd say, "Keep that blow steady" or "Listen to your foot" or "Subdivide!".

[PH]

p.s. I'm Pat!

Bill Adam is my other mentor (besides Carmine) and a master teacher. I moderate the forum dedicated to his pedagogy. Lots of people seem to get us confused on here. I'm flattered and Mr. Adam should be peeved :wink:

[ This Message was edited by: PH on 2002-11-12 15:19 ]

[_bugleboy]

M46: I also didn't do any Clarke stuff like Charles did (maybe he was more advanced?).

CR: I think Carmine had me working in traditional books because he recognized that I had never had any real fundamental training. He said that he could have written books such as the Clarke, Baermann, Schlossberg, etc., to have students practice from, but why bother when they were already there. He just used the notes written by the aforementioned somewhat differently than the authors of those books. Carmine had his own agenda and he used anything at his disposal to achieve his goals.

M46: I think the only nerve-wracking thing was if there were 6-7 other trumpet players in there and Carmine would say...OK, Butch...in the chair! .......... Remember that experience/feeling, Charles!?!

CR: Oh, ya. Jon Faddis was there one time, and Alan Rubin a couple of times. And others. The thing that I learned early on was that NO ONE would even think of betraying any sign of disrespect while someone was in the chair, no matter what kind of sounds came out. One reason was that you might not know what was really going on in that person's lesson. It could be a virtuoso who was having Carmine help him to set up a second embouchure setting. Plus, the fact that everyone, as you mentioned, would get their chance in the chair to sound terrible.

Carmine used to tell me that he WANTED to hear me at my worst. He didn't want to hear a concert, he wanted to hear and see what my problems were. He didn't want me (or anyone, I guess) to warm up first before coming for the lesson. Being at your worst possible was ideally the way Carmine wanted to see you.

When he told me that, I was totally relieved, because I knew that I wouldn't be disappointing him.

I believe, in the studio he was bored with stuff that sounded good, because when the chops were working great there wasn't much for him to do. His interests were in the stuff that didn't sound too good. That's where he could provide a solution.

M46, did you study every week during the years that you were taking lessons? I went every two weeks from 73 to the end of 75, and then every month or so for another six months.

[maynard-46]

Hi Charles,
Our experiences were VERY much the same! You made a good point regarding the Clarke studies. When I first started with Carmine I was in college and involved with all the various method books...then when I graduated I took about a year's worth of lessons from John Ware, the Ass't. Principal Trpt in the NY Phil at the time. So maybe he either thought I got enough of that "stuff" or he didn't want to confuse me with having 2 people telling me what do on the same thing at the same time.

As for lessons...while in college (Fredonia St., near Buffalo , NY) I flew to NY once a month to take a lesson with him. I gigged on weekends to pay for the flight and lesson! During the summer months I went every week. Then, when I started teaching, I took lessons every other week, alternating with Mr. Ware. That lasted about 6 months until I went on the road. Every time I had a "down" week...if I could get there...I'd then go take another lesson with Carmine. The only reason I stopped was that between a fulltime teaching job, giving private lessons and working every weekend there simply was no time! I worked with Danny Stiles' Big Band once in a while and everytime I got into the city I would always stop bye and see him. I enjoyed every minute I spent with Carmine...as I'm sure you (and many others) did!

Butch
_________________
TRUMPE: YAMAHA Lacq. "Shew Gen II" / Legends .585 "CatMaster" Top / KT "TKO" BB / Reeves #5.75 Sleeve.
FLUGELHORN: ADAMS Custom "F1" / Legends .585 "CatMaster FL.

[Pedro]

Thanks fellas! Not only did you help reaffirm things in my mind about approach, I REALLY enjoyed reading about the sessions themselves!! When thinking about the Caruso approach and the "abandon" if you will that is a part of it, these stories really support that. To know that you are sitting in a room with other players, many of them prominent and in a sense knowing the playing field is pretty much level where Caruso is concerned, can do alot for confidence in the long run! Thanks again!!

[B6L]

YES!!! this is just what I was looking for,..........I wish I was born 20 years sooner,I really would have loved to meet and study with Caruso.....................and hear Bill Chase live!!

Nate