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x9ret
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Location: Liverpool, UK
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 Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:49 am Post subject: Stomvi Elite piccolo - 4th valve slide stuck! |
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Any suggestions before taking it to a pro repairer? Tried the penetrating oil, heating the area, pulling, gave the schilke a bath... and so on. The 3rd & 4th valve are very sticky too although I've not played this instrument for a few months now which is of course to blame but it's always those valves that seize up first after a break and simply quick clean and putting valve oil on them not enough.
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Last edited by x9ret on Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ed Kennedy
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Repairer for the slide, too much danger of damaging the instrument by forcing. I suggest using Hetman #1 (Light) oil on the valves. I haven't had a frozen valve on my P5-4 since I started that years ago.
Ed K (Schilke trained tech) |
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x9ret
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:50 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Ed. Well I'm very pleased to say that after I posted this I tried a couple more times and out it came with no damage at all caused! This was after squirting some penetrating oil (WD40) inside the tube via the valve itself then two quick pulls using cloth.
Lots of green gunk had collected in the 4th valve pipe by the valve itself, which I believe caused the issue.
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Ed Kennedy
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| x9ret wrote: | Thanks Ed. Well I'm very pleased to say that after I posted this I tried a couple more times and out it came with no damage at all caused! This was after squirting some penetrating oil (WD40) inside the tube via the valve itself then two quick pulls using cloth.
Lots of green gunk had collected in the 4th valve pipe by the valve itself, which I believe caused the issue. |
Glad it worked out. |
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Tpt_Guy
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Schilke Elite? Is this a new model?
I did a search for it and all I find is this thread. |
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Tpt_Guy wrote: | Schilke Elite? Is this a new model?
I did a search for it and all I find is this thread. |
There's the Schilke P5-4, or P7-4.
There's a Stomvi Elite, I believe.
You are correct, there's no Schilke Elite.
Who knows....
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Tpt_Guy
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: | There's the Schilke P5-4, or P7-4.
There's a Stomvi Elite, I believe.
You are correct, there's no Schilke Elite.
Who knows.... |
I was more surprised than anything.
It was quite a while after Schilke released the i32 and Soloiste models before I heard about them, so I thought Schilke may have released another model (or one was discontinued) and maybe there is or was a Schilke Elite.
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LittleRusty
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Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Tpt_Guy wrote: | | Crazy Finn wrote: | There's the Schilke P5-4, or P7-4.
There's a Stomvi Elite, I believe.
You are correct, there's no Schilke Elite.
Who knows.... |
I was more surprised than anything.
It was quite a while after Schilke released the i32 and Soloiste models before I heard about them, so I thought Schilke may have released another model (or one was discontinued) and maybe there is or was a Schilke Elite. |
It appears there is a Schiller elite pic too. It is a four valve model as is the stomvi. |
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x9ret
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:49 am Post subject: |
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I meant Stomvi Elite. Sorry for the confusion. Have corrected title now.
Glad to report it's all been sorted now. Gave it a good clean inside the pipes too with some WD40. It plays much nicer now. That green gunk that goes solid is not nice...
On a different subject, it was interesting to find out for one of the Schilke models you have a choice of 4th valve slide so that you can play in a different key? Guess there's nothing like that to buy for the Stomvi?
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RETrumpet
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:24 am Post subject: |
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As far as I know, Stomvi actually came up with the idea for a replacement whole tone slide for the fourth valve. They have it on both the Titan and master Series instruments.
https://stomvi.com/en/products/instruments/trumpets/piccolo-bb-a/1113-tit%C3%A1n-a-bb-piccolo-trumpet
https://stomvi.com/en/products/instruments/trumpets/piccolo-bb-a/1114-master-a-bb-piccolo-trumpet
It's been 20+ years since I had the conversation, but when I talked to Carlos at the booth at NAMM, I believe he said it was, in part, a response to the three bell Kanstul that could play in G. Master series horns only back then, Titan's didn't exist yet. (Elites existed too, but never had the option)
My Master picc is from 2002 - a couple years after I talked to Carlos - and has the whole tone slide for the fourth valve. I don't play in G much, but it's also very useful to just take weight off the horn for response if you don't need the long slide for whatever your playing.
Seems like Schilke took that idea from them.
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x9ret
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Thank you RETrumpet that's very informative. Oh I want to change to a Master or Titan now... 
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Crazy Finn
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | It appears there is a Schiller elite pic too. It is a four valve model as is the stomvi. |
No need to bring that trash into this discussion!
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huntman10
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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I got a chance to pick up a Stomvi Elite, probably about a 2018 model for a really good price, may have been a repo. Anyway, it did have both the whole tone and 4th interval slides. It played really well. I probably should have sold my P5-4 and kept the Stomvi, but pride made the decision for me! I also have the 3 bell Kanstul (which also has the whole tone 4th option) and liked the G side of the Stomvi better than the G bell set up on the Kanstul, as well, although the Kanstul A bell plus whole tone slide is good.
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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc. |
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Tpt_Guy
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| RETrumpet wrote: | | It's been 20+ years since I had the conversation, but when I talked to Carlos at the booth at NAMM, I believe he said it was, in part, a response to the three bell Kanstul that could play in G. Master series horns only back then, Titan's didn't exist yet. (Elites existed too, but never had the option) |
Interesting.
My picc is an old Stomvi from eons ago. It has no model designated on it, and it has the covertible 4th slide. I thought it was meant to use more for alternate fingerings and trills rather than to drop the horn into G (which I knew it could do, but sounds...bad).
It looks pretty much exactly like this horn, minus the Schilke-style valve caps and buttons (and this horn has a solid 4th slide):
https://www.flemingrepair.com/product/stomvi-piccolo-trumpet/
My picc also does not have a 3rd valve slide waterkey.
Any idea what model it is? |
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x9ret
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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This thread has got a bit random but interesting. Let me ask something else.
The 4th valve slide is actually very long and could be pulled out a considerable distance. Has anyone here found some other use or hack with it if pulled out to drop the pitch more than a 4th? I'm not sure but guessing if there's some dodgy trill somewhere could there be a hack?
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LittleRusty
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| x9ret wrote: | This thread has got a bit random but interesting. Let me ask something else.
The 4th valve slide is actually very long and could be pulled out a considerable distance. Has anyone here found some other use or hack with it if pulled out to drop the pitch more than a 4th? I'm not sure but guessing if there's some dodgy trill somewhere could there be a hack? |
Removing the crook altogether is sometimes done to facilitate playing a certain note in the Brandenburg. There are also Brandenburg bells that replace the upper leg of the crook for the same reason.
And for those pics that have a two piece fourth valve crook, like the Kanstul ZKT 1520 I own, you can remove a long straight section and the valve becomes a single step for trills. (It looks like the Kanstul 920 might also have that fourth valve arrangement from a pictures found) |
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Tpt_Guy
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| x9ret wrote: | This thread has got a bit random but interesting. Let me ask something else.
The 4th valve slide is actually very long and could be pulled out a considerable distance. Has anyone here found some other use or hack with it if pulled out to drop the pitch more than a 4th? I'm not sure but guessing if there's some dodgy trill somewhere could there be a hack? |
Let the Bright Seraphim
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GImxiaeXr9Q
Wynton has the 4th slide pulled to drop the pitch a perfect fifth. This enables him to play the low A pickup into the opening statement. |
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x9ret
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x9ret
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:56 am Post subject: |
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OK I tried the remove 4th valve tube and use as a bell thing and... didn't work out for me! Easier to get that top A with just 2nd valve, surely?
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LittleRusty
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| x9ret wrote: | | OK I tried the remove 4th valve tube and use as a bell thing and... didn't work out for me! Easier to get that top A with just 2nd valve, surely? |
The A, the one above high C on a Bb, in question is out of my range on the pic so I cannot speak from experience. But according to what I have read some people have performed it that way.
Can you imagine the first time someone did that? "No really, I plan on playing the high A fourth valve without the slide in the performance."  |
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