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homebilly Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010 Posts: 2197 Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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here is a question that maybe Charles can answer.......
who has Zig been molding that is still at Kanstul to follow in his footsteps??
ron _________________ ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3636 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Allied has started discontinuing common Benge parts, such as a-rod nuts, so I would guess that Conn-Selmer is going to stop making whatever "Benge" trumpets they formerly made. Another name consigned to history. We're very lucky that Mr. Kanstul is still around. |
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ewetho Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2007 Posts: 1264 Location: Kankakee, IL
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Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Sad to see it end but we can get the real deal from Zig and under the Burbank brand. However my UMI/Conn Selmer 3X Benge really surprised quite a few people in the Chicago trumpet hang a couple years ago as to how good it really was (Just not a BENGE). _________________ Kanstul Chicago 1001
CG Personal
Schilke 20D2d
Schilke 20D2d 22 throat |
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dangeorges Regular Member
Joined: 27 Oct 2010 Posts: 13 Location: Cleveland, OH
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:13 pm Post subject: Benge 7x |
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I know this is an old forum string, but I thought I'd chime in about my own Benge 7X.
As others have said, it's a very lightweight horn, made of what appears to be very thin brass.
For me, it's about as free-blowing as it gets, but at a slight sacrifice of accuracy.
It's the most flexible horn I've ever played - HUGE dynamic range and an easy ability for lip trills and slides up and down the range.
It has a bright-ish sound, but can blend in an orchestral setting if you know what you're doing.
Of course it isn't made for orchestra - it's made as a lead horn that blows, but you really need to be in top shape to fill it and play all night.
I purchased it back in 1983-84 while in college, and it's served me well all these years.
It's pitted in many places, but the plating is perfect, and of course it still plays like a champ.
There are lots of "UMI" bashers out there, but this horn is definitely in a class by itself. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2053 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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OK, third attempt to post … I know this is an ages-old thread BUT: I have just come across a Benge 7 (not 7X), serial 987 XXX and wonder when and where it was made.
Bell engraving says Resno tempered Bell 7 custom made by E. Benge USA, no indication of a city. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: | OK, third attempt to post … I know this is an ages-old thread BUT: I have just come across a Benge 7 (not 7X), serial 987 XXX and wonder when and where it was made.
Bell engraving says Resno tempered Bell 7 custom made by E. Benge USA, no indication of a city. |
I believe that is a UMI Benges made in Eastlake, Ohio.
This is after UMI closed the Anaheim plant in the early 1980's and shifted all "Benge" production to Eastlake.
I'm not sure if the Benge 7 (x) was a UMI only produced model or if it was made in California at some, very late, point. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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dangeorges Regular Member
Joined: 27 Oct 2010 Posts: 13 Location: Cleveland, OH
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:36 am Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | Brassnose wrote: | OK, third attempt to post … I know this is an ages-old thread BUT: I have just come across a Benge 7 (not 7X), serial 987 XXX and wonder when and where it was made.
Bell engraving says Resno tempered Bell 7 custom made by E. Benge USA, no indication of a city. |
I believe that is a UMI Benges made in Eastlake, Ohio.
This is after UMI closed the Anaheim plant in the early 1980's and shifted all "Benge" production to Eastlake.
I'm not sure if the Benge 7 (x) was a UMI only produced model or if it was made in California at some, very late, point. |
I have a 7x that was made in LA, so yes, there were some that were made in CA as well as in OH. |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1887
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:21 am Post subject: |
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How do you know that your horn was made in LA? |
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dangeorges Regular Member
Joined: 27 Oct 2010 Posts: 13 Location: Cleveland, OH
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Irving wrote: | How do you know that your horn was made in LA? |
Serial number, markings, and year purchased. Is there a reason to doubt where it was made? |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1887
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Well, it isn't stamped on the horn (as far as I can tell). I have seen pictures of the horn that Brassnose is referring to... Plus I have looked for information but didn't find anything definitive on line. Maybe you have? If so, where did you get your information? I'm only trying to corroborate what you have stated.
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dangeorges Regular Member
Joined: 27 Oct 2010 Posts: 13 Location: Cleveland, OH
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Irving wrote: | Well, it isn't stamped on the horn (as far as I can tell). I have seen pictures of the horn that Brassnose is referring to... Plus I have looked for information but didn't find anything definitive on line. Maybe you have? If so, where did you get your information? I'm only trying to corroborate what you have stated.
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Ok. I see the confusion. I was responding to your comment about maybe some 7X horns were made in California late, just immediately prior to the move to Ohio. And I say the answer to that is, yes, it's true. My horn was made in Los Angeles and was purchased during the time period that the factory was still making horns in LA. I wasn't stating ANYTHING about the horn in question from Brassnose. I can only talk about the horn I purchased. My trumpet, not Brassnose's.
Hope that helps. |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1887
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3306 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="dangeorges"] Irving wrote: | ... My horn was made in Los Angeles and was purchased during the time period that the factory was still making horns in LA. ... I can only talk about the horn I purchased. ... |
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From your description, you have first-hand knowledge of YOUR horn from the time period of the Benge LA to Eastlake transition. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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dangeorges Regular Member
Joined: 27 Oct 2010 Posts: 13 Location: Cleveland, OH
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="JayKosta"] dangeorges wrote: | Irving wrote: | ... My horn was made in Los Angeles and was purchased during the time period that the factory was still making horns in LA. ... I can only talk about the horn I purchased. ... |
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From your description, you have first-hand knowledge of YOUR horn from the time period of the Benge LA to Eastlake transition. |
Yes I do. I wouldn't have knowledge of the origins of anyone else's horn
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Irving wrote: | Well, it isn't stamped on the horn (as far as I can tell). I have seen pictures of the horn that Brassnose is referring to... Plus I have looked for information but didn't find anything definitive on line. Maybe you have? If so, where did you get your information? I'm only trying to corroborate what you have stated. |
I'm no Benge expert, but....
I believe the bell markings on the LA horns and UMI horns are different from what I've seen.
I know most UMI Eastlake horns have "E Benge USA"
I know most LA Benge horns have "E Benge Los Angeles, Calif"
That's not definitive and there might be some....variance at the end of the LA and beginning of the Eastlake production. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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dangeorges Regular Member
Joined: 27 Oct 2010 Posts: 13 Location: Cleveland, OH
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | Irving wrote: | Well, it isn't stamped on the horn (as far as I can tell). I have seen pictures of the horn that Brassnose is referring to... Plus I have looked for information but didn't find anything definitive on line. Maybe you have? If so, where did you get your information? I'm only trying to corroborate what you have stated. |
I'm no Benge expert, but....
I believe the bell markings on the LA horns and UMI horns are different from what I've seen.
I know most UMI Eastlake horns have "E Benge USA"
I know most LA Benge horns have "E Benge Los Angeles, Calif"
That's not definitive and there might be some....variance at the end of the LA and beginning of the Eastlake production. |
You're correct. UMI horns have USA in the bell and on the second valve. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2053 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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Lively discussion, very nice. As I said before the bell engraving only says USA, no city. This, plus the high serial, makes me think that all of you suggesting UMI are correct.
Any opinions on UMI horns other than that they are not as highly regarded? I’ve seen a lot of less positive posts about them but what got me thinking in the first place is the fact that when I bought the Bach in the signature in 1992 the runner up was a Benge.
As this is a while ago I can’t remember the model but it must have also been a UMI horn, given the fact that it was a new horn. It was good, just didn’t have that big band sound I was looking for, much broader and warmer. The distinctive feature I remember is that the felts were underneath the finger buttons and not on top of the valve caps. Looked nice. Lacquered all yellow brass, very light horn.
After this I have never even seen a Benge but the one was really good, so UMI trumpets may not be that horrible after all. But then again, statistics with one horn may need to be improved … _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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chapahi Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 1467 Location: Stuttgart, Germany
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:19 am Post subject: |
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I bought a Benge pocket trumpet in 1996. Is that UMI? I've heard that's a 5X bell. I had no problems at all. All around great horn. _________________ Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super |
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Bogey Factory Regular Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2019 Posts: 56 Location: Springfield, MO
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:28 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Brassnose"
Any opinions on UMI horns other than that they are not as highly regarded? I’ve seen a lot of less positive posts about them but what got me thinking in the first place is the fact that when I bought the Bach in the signature in 1992 the runner up was a Benge.
…[/quote]
I had a UMI CG in lacquer. It was a good playing horn. It did have a mellower sound than the 3 LA CGs I have. One of the valves hung intermittently so I traded it. I've played a handful other UMI X series Benges and they all played fine. My pic is a UMI Benge. It isn't as good as the Yamaha 6810 but I like it better than the Getzen Eterna. I have no need of a pic but I'm glad to have the one I have. _________________ Justin Shaw |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1830 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Just adding some more data. I've recently acquired a Benge 7X Serial 98XXXX. The markings on the bell and valve casing show USA. Other than that, it looks exactly like a Benge.
The bell is medium large and the bell brass is either thicker or harder than a CG. It has nice "ring" to it when thunked.
The monel valves do not show the typical King micro finish.
It does not have a King style valve block.
The pistons are a different diameter that those used in the Kings.
The piston barrel and stems are of a different size than King (after they switched to internal springs).
The 6 digit serial number appears to put it in the King serial series.
The mouthpiece/receiver /leadpipe gap is an amazing .333 inch. (OK - it's technically "gappless" - but the measurement is from the point where receiver and leadpipe join)
I have found this gap problem in older King professional trumpets and in the older King student models. With this much gap, the trumpet still plays well but does not play like a .470 bore horn.
Last edited by Andy Cooper on Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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