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RNelson
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Posts: 1801
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
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 Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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I think most forums go through changes, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse.
There was a time when I really enjoyed the R&P because of guys like Allen, Clarino, and Ohan. They don't yell and scream, and their minds are always open. I enjoy a good debate and really enjoy the open exchange of ideas. Basically, some guys hung out to exchange ideas and some just wanted to shout out the "enemy".
Well, as has been mentioned, over the last few months the resonable cats started to leave. I for one hardly visited over the last few months...my friends had left.
I think it can come back around as a fun place to talk politics (I don't talk religion), but guys have GOT to lighten up. What really vanished was a sense of humor.
As to the Lounge...its a place for kids to flirt or goof around. I have no problem with it, and once in a while see something funny. It does bother me to see older/middle aged guys flirting with high school kids.
That's just sad, and wrong.
The trumpet related forums can be cool, but there is just too much noise being made to get the good stuff out. High school kids or weekend warriors ALWAYS seem to take shots at the pros when they try to contribute. I know a ton of pros who won't pitch in just for that reason, and as you know, many have left.
That's also just sad, and wrong.
Ray
www.raynelson.net |
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trumpet356
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 2166
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| RNelson wrote: | | I think it can come back around as a fun place to talk politics (I don't talk religion), but guys have GOT to lighten up. What really vanished was a sense of humor. |
The problem is that the nature of the "politics" and "religion" has changed. We're no longer talking about "tax cuts for the Rich" or "spendthrift Democrats", or other such mundane topics. We're talking about life and death issues (literally), which many - and more everyday - are seeing their personal vulnerability and the safety of their family and friends at stake. On some of these topics, it's kind of hard to say to Liad, for example, who lives in a very dangerous place (and getting more dangerous as time goes on for Iran) "Hey, lighten up! You're taking this Suicide Bomber-thing way too seriously." Really, if one lives in Israel, is there a more constant threat to their very existence than Fascist Islam?
So, I think the days of easy-going R&P exchanges are over (if they ever existed in the first place), even if the forum does open up again. It's the nature of the times and the topics we face today. Could we all try to be nicer? Sure. But all opinions are NOT of equal weight, and those who venture into "the cage" with foolishness should be prepared to have their ideas swatted right back at them if they can't stand scrutiny.
If the goal of R&P is a "feel-good" forum, then keep it closed. It'll be worthless anyway. If it's a good education on how life "really is" - and I've gotten it from many of the guys here (Tom, Joe Camel, and so many others) - and a place for the lively exchange of Adult ideas and philosophies, then bring it back.
Those who don't like these types of exchanges can certainly find their place in the Lounge, or elsewhere. |
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trumpet356
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 2166
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| MilesD wrote: | The lounge and R/P cant be compared. R/P is full of nuts that are so entrenched in thier views, that if you waver then you are sure to be blasted. Sorry but thats just not right  |
Yeah Miles, maybe while R&P is down you can hold a clinic on Proper Posting Etiquette, so that when R&P comes back, we'll be able to uphold your lofty standards of debate:
| MilesD wrote: | | Go pick your head out of your a** converse and judge morality on morality, not on some koran code that any sane Christian has no interest in |
| MilesD wrote: | | Regarding Muslims they just got a bad rap because of all the bigots in this world |
| MilesD wrote: | | But apology accepted anyway, I suppose its the best that a arrogant pessimist like yourself can do |
How 'bout starting that clinic right here in the Lounge? Maybe it'll become another fan-favorite, like "Ignore this post!"
 LOL! |
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scarface
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1806
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Good to give it a rest, but it would be cool if R\P reopened before mid-term elections in the US, imo. 
*cough*
CLINTON IN '08!!
*cough* |
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MilesD
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1657
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| trumpet356 wrote: | | MilesD wrote: | | The lounge and R/P cant be compared. R/P is full of nuts that are so entrenched in thier views, that if you waver then you are sure to be blasted. Sorry but thats just not right |
Yeah Miles, maybe while R&P is down you can hold a clinic on Proper Posting Etiquette, so that when R&P comes back, we'll be able to uphold your lofty standards of debate:
| MilesD wrote: | | Go pick your head out of your a** converse and judge morality on morality, not on some koran code that any sane Christian has no interest in |
| MilesD wrote: | | Regarding Muslims they just got a bad rap because of all the bigots in this world |
| MilesD wrote: | | But apology accepted anyway, I suppose its the best that a arrogant pessimist like yourself can do |
How 'bout starting that clinic right here in the Lounge? Maybe it'll become another fan-favorite, like "Ignore this post!"
LOL! |
Trumpet356
Ya youre one of those regular R/P troublemakers that no one really likes. Thanks for bringing that concise sharp wit to my post 
Just think buddy, R/P was shut down because of guys like you 
BTW Trumpet 356 why dont you post the garbage you posted along with my retort? Afraid to let people see your true colours?
Maybe this post will become the new R/P 'ignore that post.'
_________________
I don't care if a dude is green with pink breath, as long as he can swing. Miles Davis
Trumpet: Red Maestro and Yamaha
Mouthpiece: Holton Heim
Last edited by MilesD on Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:03 am; edited 4 times in total |
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MilesD
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1657
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| scarface wrote: | Good to give it a rest, but it would be cool if R\P reopened before mid-term elections in the US, imo.
*cough*
CLINTON IN '08!!
*cough* |
Maybe Bush can get a job with Mike Judge in 08
_________________
I don't care if a dude is green with pink breath, as long as he can swing. Miles Davis
Trumpet: Red Maestro and Yamaha
Mouthpiece: Holton Heim
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swthiel
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 3967
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| scarface wrote: | Good to give it a rest, but it would be cool if R\P reopened before mid-term elections in the US, imo.
*cough*
CLINTON IN '08!!
*cough* |
_________________
Steve Thiel |
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Ohanapecosh
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 2133
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:15 am Post subject: |
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T356, you're one of the guys I agree with (most of the time) on content but NOT delivery or tone. The message and banner you carry is very important but shouting it doesn't mean that it's heard.
Some guys approach their "message" like the lone preacher standing on a street corner shouting out scripture interjected with booming condemnation. In my opinion, the message is good, the approach is wrong. They say that 80% of all people who come to Christ is done through friendship, the "hell, fire and brimstone" preacher is ultimately ineffective. Challenge the idea not the person. Converse never debates the idea, he berates the person, it's why so many are turned off by him. The way I look at it, if you have a message that needs to be heard, then you need an audience. You'll never have an audience if you insult them before they sit down to listen.
If you want a group of hard rockers to listen to a trumpet ballad you've written, you can't start off by saying "If you weren't such a bunch of idiot rockers, then you'd know how good this piece I'm about to play is." Guess what? the conversation is over. If your message is so important, then you better figure out that all you're doing is preaching to the choir... the audience left a long time ago. |
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Craig Swartz
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 7770
Location: Des Moines, IA area
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Without pointing any fingers, the thing that most bothered me about the R/P site was the tendency of some to resort to personal attacks rather than debate the issue. I imagine this is so because that is what people tend to see their elected representatives do with the sound-bite mentality today. Using written text there is plenty of time to vet the issue and also a quick and accurate record of what actually was said, which can be a major problem for some.
Religion and politics always evoke emotions; however, mature individuals will strive to get well beyond those if they ever wish to become effective at making their point in such a manner that they may influence people who are undecided. It is always disturbing to me to read posts declaring “Bush lied!” or “democrats/dim-o-crats are ____” unless such has been proven in some sort of acceptable court or is the overwhelming conventional wisdom. Prior to that, it is merely one person’s opinion and should be stated as such: “I believe Bush is lying…”/”I believe democrats are ____” because…
Other than the juvenile attacks on the person rather than their beliefs, I could never perceive much reason to close the forum, nor for anyone to have any viable complaint. In life, most of us must learn to agree to disagree and go on with our lives. R/P was a forum for people who had at least one thing in common- the trumpet- to either confer or share differences. I believe that is a good thing, at least the people engaged in the debate share one common interest which is more than many segments of the population on the major issues. I believe it would have been far more effective for the moderators to edit the obvious personal attacks from the threads than to close it completely. As such, they have stooped to treating the adults here as children in some of the old public schools of my youth: punish all for the misdeeds of one or two because the teacher was either too weak to take on the problem children or not observant enough to determine who they actually were. Most people were following the rules of decorum, written or unwritten. Those who did not soon would, after having their posts edited or removed. It is the primary reason humans have achieved the position atop the food chain, we can adapt. |
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trumpet356
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 2166
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| MilesD wrote: | | trumpet356 wrote: | | MilesD wrote: | | The lounge and R/P cant be compared. R/P is full of nuts that are so entrenched in thier views, that if you waver then you are sure to be blasted. Sorry but thats just not right |
Yeah Miles, maybe while R&P is down you can hold a clinic on Proper Posting Etiquette, so that when R&P comes back, we'll be able to uphold your lofty standards of debate:
| MilesD wrote: | | Go pick your head out of your a** converse and judge morality on morality, not on some koran code that any sane Christian has no interest in |
| MilesD wrote: | | Regarding Muslims they just got a bad rap because of all the bigots in this world |
| MilesD wrote: | | But apology accepted anyway, I suppose its the best that a arrogant pessimist like yourself can do |
How 'bout starting that clinic right here in the Lounge? Maybe it'll become another fan-favorite, like "Ignore this post!"
LOL! |
Trumpet356
Ya youre one of those regular R/P troublemakers that no one really likes. Thanks for bringing that concise sharp wit to my post
Just think buddy, R/P was shut down because of guys like you
BTW Trumpet 356 why dont you post the garbage you posted along with my retort? Afraid to let people see your true colours?
Maybe this post will become the new R/P 'ignore that post.' |
Wow, you must have really thought about this post, as you've taken the time to edit it and everything!
Well worth the extra effort - it's now a masterpiece! |
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trumpet356
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 2166
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| MilesD wrote: | | Go pick your head out of your a** converse and judge morality on morality, not on some koran code that any sane Christian has no interest in |
| MilesD wrote: | | Regarding Muslims they just got a bad rap because of all the bigots in this world |
| MilesD wrote: | | But apology accepted anyway, I suppose its the best that a arrogant pessimist like yourself can do |
| MilesD wrote: | | Ya youre one of those regular R/P troublemakers that no one really likes. |
Just proving the point that, despite your sermonizing and eloquent condemnation of the "meanness" of R/P: "if you waver then you are sure to be blasted. Sorry but thats just not right...."(LOL!), you're one of the guys responsible for that tone. And you continue it right here.
| MilesD wrote: | | Just think buddy, R/P was shut down because of guys like you |
That's why we so desperately need your clinic!
Too funny!!  |
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trumpet356
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 2166
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Ohanapecosh wrote: | | T356, you're one of the guys I agree with (most of the time) on content but NOT delivery or tone. The message and banner you carry is very important but shouting it doesn't mean that it's heard. |
Thanks, Oh. You're one of the very good ones here, so your message does carry quite a bit of weight. I'll try to keep it in mind for the future. |
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JoeCool
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 2238
Location: Wimberley, TX
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:44 am Post subject: |
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I think I hear the Mods coming...
_________________
Joe |
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ARB
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 3589
Location: Hotlanta - Commonly known as Atlanta Ga
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: |
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MODERATORS please open the R/P forum and move this tread over there.
_________________
Allen - 'Chops-in-Hotlanta'
00 Schilke S22
77 LA Benge 5X
63 Burbank Benge C
"It's what we think we know that keeps us from knowing" |
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ARB
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 3589
Location: Hotlanta - Commonly known as Atlanta Ga
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Ohanapecosh wrote: | T356, you're one of the guys I agree with (most of the time) on content but NOT delivery or tone. The message and banner you carry is very important but shouting it doesn't mean that it's heard.
Some guys approach their "message" like the lone preacher standing on a street corner shouting out scripture interjected with booming condemnation. In my opinion, the message is good, the approach is wrong. They say that 80% of all people who come to Christ is done through friendship, the "hell, fire and brimstone" preacher is ultimately ineffective. Challenge the idea not the person. Converse never debates the idea, he berates the person, it's why so many are turned off by him. The way I look at it, if you have a message that needs to be heard, then you need an audience. You'll never have an audience if you insult them before they sit down to listen. |
Well said Ohanapecosh. Thanks
Back in the day when I hung out in R/P I'd often learn a lot from the guys there (left, right and middle); now-a-days I enter, see something like Dim_o_crats plastered all over the place, and I change the channel.
_________________
Allen - 'Chops-in-Hotlanta'
00 Schilke S22
77 LA Benge 5X
63 Burbank Benge C
"It's what we think we know that keeps us from knowing" |
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tom turner
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 6648
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: |
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NAWWW, ALLEN,
IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE ALL OVER HERE NOW!
HEY, I'M ALREADY BEGINNING TO LIKE THE "LOUNGE!" IT DEFINATELY HAS ITS ADVANTAGES OVER THE "R/P" FORUM . . .
SUCH AS NO ZAPPING OF THREADS AFTER A FEW SHORT DAYS!
IT'S TIME FOR US OLD FARTS TO "INTEGRATE" THE LOUNGE!
Oops . . . there goes the neighborhood.
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Scootsky
Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 439
Location: Fort Worth
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: Are You? |
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You might be a redneck if…
You ever sucked up a small animal in a vacuum cleaner.
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308WIN
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2002
Posts: 1631
Location: Waldorf MD
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Japle wrote: | | I do miss it, but I'm getting my fix over at the Glocktalk forums. |
Oh, COME ON?! GT?! Then again, it IS ridiculous....
At least they won't ban you for saying "carp" like the 1911forums...
_________________
كافر
9/11/01 Never forget those who died. Never forget those who killed them. |
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MilesD
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1657
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| trumpet356 wrote: | | MilesD wrote: | | Go pick your head out of your a** converse and judge morality on morality, not on some koran code that any sane Christian has no interest in |
| MilesD wrote: | | Regarding Muslims they just got a bad rap because of all the bigots in this world |
| MilesD wrote: | | But apology accepted anyway, I suppose its the best that a arrogant pessimist like yourself can do |
| MilesD wrote: | | Ya youre one of those regular R/P troublemakers that no one really likes. |
Just proving the point that, despite your sermonizing and eloquent condemnation of the "meanness" of R/P: "if you waver then you are sure to be blasted. Sorry but thats just not right...."(LOL!), you're one of the guys responsible for that tone. And you continue it right here.
| MilesD wrote: | | Just think buddy, R/P was shut down because of guys like you |
That's why we so desperately need your clinic!
Too funny!! |
The first rule of the MilesD clinic is to print YOUR nonsence along WITH my retort. Can you comply 356? Probably not
Youre to funny, just like Bush
_________________
I don't care if a dude is green with pink breath, as long as he can swing. Miles Davis
Trumpet: Red Maestro and Yamaha
Mouthpiece: Holton Heim
Last edited by MilesD on Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MilesD
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1657
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Moderators, Please re open R/P and transfer this thread there. BTW if my thread is going to be the new R/P then we need someone to start of with a cogent subject. T356, are you up to it? Perhaps you can sing the praises to Bush and then all of the balanced minded Libs can retort you  Actually I just noticed that my thread was moved to Reveille. Guess the Mods are watching
_________________
I don't care if a dude is green with pink breath, as long as he can swing. Miles Davis
Trumpet: Red Maestro and Yamaha
Mouthpiece: Holton Heim
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