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bandman322
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 2259
Location: Lafayette, LA
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 Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Yamaha 8335LA info from Wayne B. |
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| waynardb wrote: | This may be old news to some of you after reading this mornings posts but someone had asked me to post this information.
Here's what I know. Well...what I think I know.
As far as an official release date, who knows? It has changed a few times because of various logistical reasons. As far as prototypes... I have the only prototype. There were 10 pre-production models floating around the world a while back. I believe they are all back in NYC at the Yamaha custom shop at this point. These horns were made for testing and feedback before we made our final decision to give Yamaha Japan the go ahead with manufacturing. A few minor changes where made to these horns to get them up to snuff. This delayed final production a bit but I wanted all the horns to play exactly like my prototype.
The first 6 official production horns where shipped to my house for testing about 6 weeks ago. Bob Malone & I had a little trumpet party here for local players to try the horns. Five of those horns where sold that day and I kept a lacquer one for myself. I did a call from Ferguson music in Tujunga, CA and was told that 4 have arrived at his store as well. Anaheim Band also has 2 of the horns as of last week. A student from TX that told me he ordered one from WWBW and it arrived damaged. Anyway, there was some question of the horns availability, apparently horns are being shipped. I would love to get any feedback on the horn from those that have tried it.
All the Best,
Wayne Bergeron
www.waynebergeron.com |
He's amazing!!! He's one of the best players in the world (he happens to be my personal favorite) and he takes the time to answer Emails, and to post on TH as my request!!! We are truly blessed to have him as a member of the trumpet community!
Thanks Wayne,
Dave
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C - Harrelson 750 Modified Bach Strad
Picc - Schilke P5-4
Flugel - Kanstul ZKF1525
Bb - Bach Strad 180ML-37
"To be a teacher you need to be as good a performer as you can be: you'll have more to impart to your students musically." - John Haynie |
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Bill Bryant
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 1570
Location: Rapid City, SD
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't ask Wayne what he thinks about "tongue level"! Either way he answers, half of this forum will tell him he's doing it wrong! |
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ADziuk
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 545
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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All I can say, is they are definitely out there. I have personally seen them, and held it in my hand, and seen several professionals try it out. We are talking released, regular models, in a store.
Now, as I stated earlier, the response was not overwhelmingly positive, in fact it was mostly negative. However, Mr. Bergeron obviously sounds good on it, so it is probably a personal preference thing.
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"Everyone should carefully observe which way his heart draws him, and then choose that way with all his strength." |
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dbacon
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 8592
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill Bryant wrote: | | Don't ask Wayne what he thinks about "tongue level"! Either way he answers, half of this forum will tell him he's doing it wrong! |
Or pedal tones.. |
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Bill Bryant
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 1570
Location: Rapid City, SD
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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"Wayne is doing it wrong . . . "
No one has actually said that, but if they did, I would find it more entertaining than just about anything I've ever heard. |
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dbacon
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 8592
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Glenn Stuart, at a clinic, played an arpeggio from Pedal C to Double C....the local trumpet prof muttered, "you did it wrong.." Glenn said, "You heard it come out the horn, didn't you?"
It got quiet for a second or two... |
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Trptbenge
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2002
Posts: 2390
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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ADziuk, I agree a horn is a personal thing. However, the feedback I have seen on the and heard has for the most part been very positive. Though, the horn is not for everyone - like the Kanstul WB & it is a very fine horn.
For all the poster who want to lock Wayne into a certain type of embouchure remember Wayne has been able to play a Double C shortly after he started playing in 7th grade. His band director used to bring him in and have him play a double C for people. It is hard to overcome natural talent especially when that talent is combined with hard work.
Mike
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It's the sound that makes the difference! |
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Macdaddy757
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Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 226
Location: Monroe, Louisiana
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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does anyone that has played the new yamaha bergeron know if it plays anything like the kanstul one. I didnt not personally like that one at all, so i was just wondering.
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Shelby McCarty
www.shelbymccarty.net |
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trptcat
New Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Maricopa,AZ
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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I have the Kanstul Begeron(Tweaked by Wayne)and just last week got the LA yamaha.On 1st impressions I like the Yamaha much better.There both wonderful lead trumpet horns.Wayne used the the Kanstul as the horn for Bob Malone to beat in designing his new horn.If you don't like the Kanstul you might not like the yamaha.I practiced on the new horn a lot today-and love it.Give it a try.
Best wishes,
Bob |
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dbacon
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 8592
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Macdaddy757 wrote: | | does anyone that has played the new yamaha bergeron know if it plays anything like the kanstul one. I didnt not personally like that one at all, so i was just wondering. |
I didn't like the Kanstul either, but they were very inconsistent.
Somebody tried Wayne's and said it played very well.
Hopefully Yamaha will at least be consistent but who knows? |
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screamking
Regular Member
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I got an 8335la in silver coming into the store that I teach at near Chicago if anyone is interested. We should be getting it any day now. |
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Rich G
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 2998
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| trptcat wrote: | I have the Kanstul Begeron(Tweaked by Wayne)and just last week got the LA yamaha.On 1st impressions I like the Yamaha much better.There both wonderful lead trumpet horns.Wayne used the the Kanstul as the horn for Bob Malone to beat in designing his new horn.If you don't like the Kanstul you might not like the yamaha.I practiced on the new horn a lot today-and love it.Give it a try.
Best wishes,
Bob |
I owned the Kanstul 1600WB. It was not like Wayne Begeron's Kanstul. It was not a good horn. Kanstul should have taken more care in making sure that the one's released played more like Mr. Bergeron's personally "tweaked" horn. I didn't like the Kanstul 1600WB, I would expect the new WB Yamaha to play better than the Kanstul I owned - as long as it also doesn't need to be tweaked after purchase to play at its best, especially if it's something that could easily be done at the plant during assembly. (For example, Bobby Shew's personal tweaking of "Z" horns after they left the factory. This could have been done at during manufacturing). |
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Bartok
Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 456
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:28 am Post subject: |
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I've never played on a Kanstul WB, so I can't comment on it.
But, I just want to add my 2 cents on "tweaking".
We know that no 2 horns play alike. They may have similar characteristics, similar feels, but, they will all be different.
A tweaked horn is when a horn is adjusted to the player. Since all players are different, they can't do a general tweak during production to make everyone happy.
I've had my Yamaha Bb and C tweaked by Wayne Tanabe. Wayne went by what he heard, and what I was looking for. What he did to my horns to help me may have totally screwed them up for someone else. |
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Rich G
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 2998
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| Bartok wrote: |
A tweaked horn is when a horn is adjusted to the player. Since all players are different, they can't do a general tweak during production to make everyone happy.. |
That is very true, I shouldn't have used the word "tweak". But the venturi adjustment performed by Bobby Shew on his and his student's Yammie "Z's" (that took very little time to do) was an actual improvement to the performance of the horn itself and could have been done at the factory. (I owned 3 "Z's". I might still have owned the first one if it had the venturi adjusted).
But you are absolutely correct, every horn is subject to personal tweaks once it is in the owner's hands. My gripe is being sold a particular "artist's" model that is significantly dufferent from the one finally put in the artist's hands by the factory - after all factory tweaks have been performed to give the artist's horn certain characteristics. |
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TrpPro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 1471
Location: Riverview, FL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| TrpPro wrote: |
First impressions:
All notes above high C (including G) are very stable. I notice a slight bump in the road moving on to the A, but expect it to smooth out with more playing time.
Tone is well centered with edge but still fat. |
The LA needs more than a 15 - 20 minute test run. As mentioned above, the first thing noticed is the tone center, easy response and stable high register. That was definitely enough to keep my interest up even though the resistance was different than what I was used to. I didn't notice an increase in high range as much as a far easier time holding onto and controlling the notes that I could play: this included notes to dblC and beyond and especially the G.
After working with the horn for several hours, the above mentioned "bump" from G to A (above high C) is almost gone. The notes in that octave keep flowing more smoothly the more I play. Overall, I'm finding it very easy to adapt to. After 2 days the different feel is becoming more natural and comfortable. Still may have to trim the valve springs, though.
With the horn responding so well in all registers, scales and chords are clean. Articulating cleanly above high C is also something less than a mountain.
Used it for the first time at a rehearsal last night and had good comments about the sound.
For me, this horn is a keeper. |
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MikeBb
Regular Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2003
Posts: 24
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:30 am Post subject: |
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What are some of the specific things they do when they "tweak" horns? And when you talk about Bobby Shew opening up the venturi, is that just in the leadpipe? What else does he or anyone else do?
Thanks,
--Mike |
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Trptbenge
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2002
Posts: 2390
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:39 am Post subject: |
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RichG, I have played some Kanstul 1600's that were wonderful horns and some that were not very good. I have a friend who has a 1600 and it is a terrific horn. It plays very similar to my Kanstul 1503. However, my Yamaha 9335NYS outplays both Kanstul horns. I would expect that the Yamaha to be much more consistent. Also, Wayne mentioned in his post that they were really trying to get all the horns produced to play like Waynes. Something that Kanstul didn't acheive.
Mike
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It's the sound that makes the difference! |
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Rich G
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Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 2998
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| Trptbenge wrote: | RichG, I have played some Kanstul 1600's that were wonderful horns and some that were not very good. I have a friend who has a 1600 and it is a terrific horn. It plays very similar to my Kanstul 1503. However, my Yamaha 9335NYS outplays both Kanstul horns. I would expect that the Yamaha to be much more consistent.Also, Wayne mentioned in his post that they were really trying to get all the horns produced to play like Waynes. Something that Kanstul didn't acheive.
Mike |
I agree Mike, I have no doubt that Yamaha will produce more consistent horns. |
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regularsopguy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 577
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: |
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it probably didn't occur to anyone that Wayne's trumpet wasn't "tweaked" by the Kanstul factory at all. if so then the production horns wouldn't play like Wayne's horn at all. duh.
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"Come with uncle and hear all proper. Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones...you are invited." |
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Rich G
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 2998
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| regularsopguy wrote: | | it probably didn't occur to anyone that Wayne's trumpet wasn't "tweaked" by the Kanstul factory at all. if so then the production horns wouldn't play like Wayne's horn at all. duh. |
There is strong feeling by many that the production horns didn't play like Wayne's horn. I can't imagine Wayne Bergeron being happy with the one I had - or - the two others I auditioned. There are a few threads on this. Could it be that they might spend a little more time on Wayne's horn, especially when he was in consultation with them regarding what he wanted? |
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