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Trptbenge Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2002 Posts: 2390 Location: Atlanta, GA
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:47 am Post subject: |
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Zig Kanstul worked with Wayne quite a bit to get the horn like he wanted it. I have seen two or three prototype horns floating around. The rumor was that initially they had trouble duplicating the leadpipe Zig had created for Waynes horn.
When I saw Wayne give a clinic at the University of Central Florida about 5 and a half years ago the local Kanstul dealer was trying to pass the Kanstul 1504 Model as the same as Waynes. Which I think that is the horn that the WB evolved from. However, it was very different.
I am anxious to try the Yamaha and compare it to the Kanstul.
Mike _________________ It's the sound that makes the difference! |
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T2 Regular Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2004 Posts: 15
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:43 am Post subject: |
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Hey TH,
Just to put my 2 cents in. Dillon has recieved 1 YTR-8335LA and 1 YTR-8335LAS and sold them both in the same day, they were pre-orders for customers. We have several of both lacquer and silver on order, however I am not sure of the delivery date. Please give Jason or me a call at the shop if you have any quesitons.
Jim McCombs
Dillon Music |
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crzytptman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 10124 Location: Escondido California
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: |
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I don't think there is any way to get the kind of consistency from horn to horn that you guys are talking about with production horns. There are just too many variables. That is why they are "tweaked" after production. First, how uniform is the metal being used? Are all of the soulder joints exactly in the same place from horn to horn? When the excess is removed, does the exact same amout remain? Are the valves perfectly aligned vertically and rotationally? If not, are they all out in the same way? What about buffing - is the metal of uniform thickness over the entire horn and from horn to horn after buffing? How uniform is the lacquer or plating? You all probably know that you can place a small amount of weight or even a rubber eraser on different parts of the tubing and it will change the way the horn responds and sounds. That's why "tweaking" is done after production, and the "tweak" that makes one horn play will not neccessarily make the next play the same. _________________ Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld) |
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trumpetgeeksr Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 264 Location: McMinnville, TN.
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
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TRUE THAT!!
If Mr. Bergeron let me play on his personal horn, I would probably give it back thinking...... what's so special???? I mean, no matter what caliber of player you are, our blow, endurence, feel, hearing, is totally different.
But YAMAHA makes a great trumpets. They put PRIDE into their products. AND BACKS IT!! _________________ LAWLER 26B
CALICCHIO R3/10
AL HIRT X707 Sonic "his"
AL HIRT autograph model
YAMAHA CUSTOM FLUGEL |
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Rich G Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2004 Posts: 2998 Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:46 am Post subject: |
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crzytptman wrote: | I don't think there is any way to get the kind of consistency from horn to horn that you guys are talking about with production horns. There are just too many variables. That is why they are "tweaked" after production. First, how uniform is the metal being used? Are all of the soulder joints exactly in the same place from horn to horn? When the excess is removed, does the exact same amout remain? Are the valves perfectly aligned vertically and rotationally? If not, are they all out in the same way? What about buffing - is the metal of uniform thickness over the entire horn and from horn to horn after buffing? How uniform is the lacquer or plating? You all probably know that you can place a small amount of weight or even a rubber eraser on different parts of the tubing and it will change the way the horn responds and sounds. That's why "tweaking" is done after production, and the "tweak" that makes one horn play will not neccessarily make the next play the same. |
Crazy Nate, what you say is very true. I've had 3 Yamaha "Z's" all of which played differently. However, my comments weren't in reference to after market tweaking. When companies create prototypes for an endorsing artist they tweak the horns in consultation with the endorsing artist. His/her feedback leads to changes (in leadpipe specs, bell flare, etc) or whatever else, until the artist is satisfied that it is the way he/she wants it. When the last factory changes/adjustments/tweaks are done, the chosen prototype horn should become the model for production.
Ever buy a horn where the production model received changes that were never revealed to the prospective buyer? I have. I had a Conn V1 where the tuning slide would not fit into another Conn V1. Same model, same leadpipe (46). This was not a manufacturing error, this was clearly a change in spec somewhere along the line, and the two horns were very different. |
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Trptbenge Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2002 Posts: 2390 Location: Atlanta, GA
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: |
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No, I agree that it is impossible to get that degree of consistency in any horn. Even if you had ten horns and they all were great playing horns each one is still going to be a little different. Sometimes it doesn't take much to effect a horns playing characteristics. I was thinking more of consistent production quality. However, as far as consistent quality for production horns it is hard to beat Yamaha.
Mike _________________ It's the sound that makes the difference! |
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crzytptman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 10124 Location: Escondido California
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:20 am Post subject: |
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I once pulled two V1's off the wall at a music store. Same model. I played one and thought it played ok. Picked up the other and put my mpc in, and it bottomed out. Is that manufacturing error or design change? That's a topic we haven't even addressed: if you have a variance in the receiver, you're not gonna have consistent gap and therefore you will not be able to effectively compare the response of various horns - unless you have your mpc cut for sleeves and carry a few different sizes with you. And don't kid yourself, every manufacturer of receivers has variance, as do the makers of the sleeves . . . _________________ Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld) |
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Chadwick Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 144 Location: United States
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Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Yamaha 8335LA info from Wayne B. |
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waynardb wrote: | As far as prototypes... I have the only prototype. There were 10 pre-production models floating around the world a while back. I believe they are all back in NYC at the Yamaha custom shop at this point. These horns were made for testing and feedback before we made our final decision to give Yamaha Japan the go ahead with manufacturing. A few minor changes where made to these horns to get them up to snuff. This delayed final production a bit but I wanted all the horns to play exactly like my prototype.
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Reviving a nearly 20-year-old thread to relay that Wayne Bergeron's gold plated prototype YTR-8335LA 1st Gen trumpet is on display on the 2nd floor of the Musical Instrument Museum (MIM) in Phoenix, AZ.
For what it's worth: MIM was a fascinating experience and had dozens of other trumpets on display too, including a unique Calicchio "duplex horn" (front, back), one of Rafael Méndez' trumpets, Al Aaron's ML bore Calicchio 3 bell 2s leadpipe (#2147), a few pre-war Besson Brevetes, a bunch of early Bachs, a few Martin Committees, and a bamboo trumpet.
MIM is worth a visit if you're ever in the Phoenix area! |
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Quadstriker Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2021 Posts: 108
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Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Yamaha 8335LA info from Wayne B. |
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Chadwick wrote: |
MIM is worth a visit if you're ever in the Phoenix area! |
And give yourself plenty of time! There's way too much to see in just a few hours. Plan on the whole day. It is a top notch facility. |
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