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razeontherock
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Joined: 05 Jun 2004
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Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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 Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Good to hear from across the pond - very heartwarming!
I want to resurrect Mr. Stevenson's point that cornet players need more variety of articulations at their disposal. I trust you started Tilly with crisp and clear single tongueing? Has she developed sufficient variety beyond that?
Have you personally developed a usable multiple tongue with this KTM style tongue? If so, any pointers? |
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MisterE
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Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 154
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Yammie,
Youīre absolutely right!! I was simply going by rusty figures in my head from the 80īs. The point was to illustrate that power and speed is not necissarily strength dependent. I didnīt consult any statistics at all. MY BAD!! But Nolan Ryan in comparison to Goose Gossage???!! PlEEEEEASE... Size does matter, even if our wifes tells us not.... JAJA. JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKe... |
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dkruziki
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Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:06 pm Post subject: Question |
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| What type of exercises did Claude Gordon have his students do to practice KTM? |
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BrianCade
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Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 124
Location: Fairbanks, AK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| In all the yammering, no one mentioned the third alternative, that is the "P" articulation. See Thibaud, Andre, Hardenberger, et. al. |
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Peter Bond
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Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 1455
Location: Metropolitan Opera
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Having Tilly articulate as she speaks will likely be the most fluid and natural. If she is undergoing speech therapy, talk with her therapist - the two of you may be able to work to give her confidence and fluency in both areas, or at least avoid conflicting and confusing instructions.
It sounds as though she is making progress, so my other suggestion (using the k syllable instead if t ) is probably bit late and unnecessary.
Good luck to both of you,
Peter Bond |
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carioca
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Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:16 am Post subject: |
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I read your interesting question, and my first thought was to get her to Kristian Steenstrup- the problem solver when it comes to all trumpet problems. He is one of ttodays greatest pedagogues and has helped hundreds of players with severe problems. However she is very young, but even more so it could be great for her to get the right advice from an early age. I know there are some videos out there with him- donīt remember the sites name right now- but she would probably benefit from them- however- getting her to Mr. Steenstrup would be more ideal.
Just some thoughts- hope it can help her in her continued music making:)) |
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RandyTX
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Joined: 25 Mar 2010
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Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Might be useful to note that the original post was from years ago, until this thread was recently "woken up" a few posts above. The OP might not even be around anymore.
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comosun
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Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 54
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:20 pm Post subject: doodle tonguing |
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Clark Terry developed his doodle tonguing to a high level.
Many people aren't even aware that he is doodle tonguing through those fast passages. They think he is single or double tonguing. But in fact, it's not the front of his tongue that's being used at all. I she can say 'doodle doodle', she can use it to 'tongue' on a cornet. 
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8916
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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When I was introduced to the concept of doodle tonguing it made a huge difference in my playing. I'm no pro but I'm pretty quick at tonguing and I've had many people comment that they couldn't tell when I switch from single to double tonguing. I also find that it in general results in a softer tongue which works great in a lot of situations. But I can always tongue harder when needed. I also agree about the utility of a being able to tongue in a variety of ways.
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John Mohan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Question |
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| dkruziki wrote: | | What type of exercises did Claude Gordon have his students do to practice KTM? |
You resurrected a pretty old thread! But with a good question.
The first exercise in Claude's book "Tongue Level Exercises" is the basic exercise to first develop clean KTM tonguing, and then develop rapid tonguing speed with it. That first exercise is not really a Tongue Level (Flexibility) exercise at all, but rather is an articulation exercise that involves single tonguing on a particular note for about 10 seconds, resting and then repeating on a different note. The exercise takes about 15 minutes to do.
In addition, the entire Clarke Technical Studies book provides a wealth of material to practice KTM by single tonguing (with KTM) the exercises and also multiple tonguing (with KTM) the exercises. Once Claude had me switch to KTM, he had me do all articulations in that way. It cleaned up within a matter of weeks and the speed came soon after that (not instantly - when I finally practiced the KTM Exercise faithfully every day, it took me about a year and a half to get from 1/16th notes at about 96 bpm to 1/16th notes at 126 bpm and then another year or so to get it up to where I could do it at 144 bpm on a good day).
Keep in mind that speed of articulation is only one of the benefits of learning and developing KTM tonguing. Range, endurance, clean articulations, soft attacks, hard attacks and perhaps most of all, accuracy when tonguing notes in all registers are all improved significantly when one learns to tongue the KTM way.
A full explanation of K-Tongue Modified tonguing and how to develop it can be found on pages 26 and 27 of Claude's text book "Brass Playing Is No Harder Than Deep Breathing".
Best wishes,
John Mohan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3aegrEZc_8
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lmaraya
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 618
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:39 am Post subject: |
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I have always used KTM but have never been able to increase my single tonguing. My fastest speed is sixteenth notes on the same note at 116 the quater note, and 110 with changing notes. That is not that slow, but not even close to 144!!!! I practice single tonguing every day for at least 15 minutes.
I think the issue could be my jaw alignment which is perfectly aligned with the top teeth (not the normal slight overbite) when pushed all the way in, I also think that is the reason why lip trills are so hard for me.
Luis M Araya |
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