hitting those high notes

trumpetkid11 · Regular Member Joined: 04 Dec 2002 Posts: 88

i was just wonderin, how u guys "test" ur range. sometimes after i finish playing for the day, i like to see how my range is doing, so i test it. basically i hit a note like C (two lines above the staff) and just lip the note up as high as i can go, and sometimes i can even jump up an octave by doing it. i was just wondering if this was a good way to test my range or what ways do some of you guys do to test your range. thanks.

_Don Herman · Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2003 6:00 pm Post subject:

Uh, for that, "hitting" is an apt description. Try playing a short etude or exercise from Arban's or Getchell an octave (or two) up. When you can play a melodic line fluidly, with good sound and good control, then you "own" the notes (paraphrasing Eddie "Tiger" Lewis). I have done the same thing as you, "testing the waters" as it were, and it usually results in a bunged up lip for the next day or three. I personally think the potential for hurting myself is too great to try to "hit" notes at the top of my range at the end of rehearsal. It might be better to do a gentle warmdown instead, so you can still impress everybody the next day.

Realize I'm saying this to remind myself not to do stupi-... err, "improper" things!

FWIW - Don

p.s. Roddy posted a nice summary of range ownership -- 'member it, Roddy? Can you dig it out for us again?
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

Liad Bar-EL · Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2003 1:54 am Post subject:

Emb_Enh · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455

Hitting/Playing...

IMHO there are 8 range types..

Number:

1. has'nt really got much range at all .... can HIT up to high c with varying degrees of consistency etc...etc...
2.has really got ''good control'' etc.. can PLAY brilliantly to high c [and squeeze a few more]
3.can HIT up to high g [4 leger lines] with varying degrees of consistency etc...etc...
4.can PLAY brilliantly to high g [and squeeze a few more]
5.can HIT up to DHC with varying degrees of consistency etc...
6.can PLAY brilliantly to DHC [Most Pro lead players of today ] [and squeeze a few more]
7.can HIT beyond DHC with varying degrees of consistency
8.can PLAY brilliantly beyond DHC....and NEVER SQUEEZE

Lots of players [ # 1 thru 4 ]..... mistake ''hitting'' for ''playing''.
Lots of players...... find getting to # 4..... a real struggle.
Some guys spend ALL their time ''hitting'' never with a thought to ''playing''.
How do you become a # 8 ? ...start at # 2 then / 4 / 6 / 8...Bingo!!!---simple! : )

Here's the biggie....

Most players [ # 1 thru 4 ] who mistake ''hitting'' for ''playing'' are the guys who go around saying....'' how high can you really play?'' ...what they really mean is..

"how high can you hit?

Basically - to turn squeels into notes, play tunes at mezzoforte at a register which is just below the squeely stuff [decent sounding highest register] and keep transposing up a half step ONLY when the squeel has become a note. Use plenty of air support / keep the mouthpiece pressure at a minimum and go into the lower register from the high one and back up on occasion to check your not becoming specialised. This is the way to turn squeels into a proper workable / usable note.

You can think of the whole picture in the same way as Bill Watrous mentions in his book: "Trombonisms" [my added thoughts in brackets]

#1.Consistently playable high notes [within a melody] used to increase endurance
#2.Sometimes playable high notes [within a phrase] used to become "Consistently" playable.
#3.Occassionally "squeakable" even-higher notes [singularly played or arppeggio like.] to be practiced into "Sometimes" playable high notes.

Good to type with you Mr.Liad/Mr.Don!

Roddy o-iii<O
_________________
Regards, Roddy o-iii RoddyTpt@aol.com

"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
BOOK 1 also... BOOK 2 + demo CD

[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

_Don Herman · Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2003 12:30 pm Post subject:

Roddy -- that's it! Thanks!!! (Gotta' finish reading your book.) And thank you, too, Liad -- very worthwhile comments!
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

Jarrett Ellis · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Posts: 649

Well as a number 4 workin on 6 this player can definetly vouch for Roddy's technique... My personal "rule of thumb" is that if you can't play it with a good classical tone... forget about using it on a performance>> jazz or not<< but once you can... playin lead, you paste the guy in the back row with your projection and tone I guarantee it

P.S. Don't force it... I had a friend who tried to play like Maynard all the time and made himself have a hernia

edtaylor · Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:04 am Post subject:

Several books sound tempting . . . Roddy's, Pops', Smiley's, and Callet's. However, they are not cheap and I am concerned that I will become like a dieter . . . always searching for that perfect diet.
_________________
Ed Taylor . . . a Messianic gentile

Jerry Freedman · Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 11:23 am Post subject:

>Several books sound tempting . . . Roddy's, Pops', Smiley's, and Callet's. However, they are not cheap and I am >concerned that I will become like a dieter . . . always searching for that perfect diet.

Well, Roddy's and Pops books would be considered "metadiet" books. They don't actually recommend a method but describe how trumpets and embouchures work (Pops) and howwyou should improve your playing(Roddy) ( how to diet efficiently ). Pops has a real theoretical bent. He has a taxonomy of embouchures along with an analysis of their strengths and weaknesses. Roddy is a bit more practical - he shows you how to get down and learn with whatever method book or books you are using. Callet and Smiley are specific embouchure books. Both are full of information which followed carefully will improve your playing particularly your range but Callet, while a thinker and explorer, does not communicate well with his books. There are a handful of text pages followed by excerpts and exercises with little direction. I would not attempt SuperChops or Trumpet Secrets without expert guidance. Smiley's book takes you step by step with graded exercises and a CD of his students demontrating the exercises.

J. Freedman

edtaylor · Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 2:07 pm Post subject:

Jerry, thanks for the thumbnails. I agree with respect to Callet's, at least with respect to Superchops, I have not seen Trumpet Secrets. I guess my experience with the SC book has made me wary about purchasing other books. Also, they do remain a bit pricey to buy on a lark.
_________________
Ed Taylor . . . a Messianic gentile

nickyboy · Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 2:43 pm Post subject:

im iffy on all the book things because of the fact that playing trumpet (in my mind anyway) is kinda like being an artest. Every artest has there own style same with trumpet players you cant copy one persons idea and expect to get any better without playing your own way. I say you wanna hit the high notes practice them however you feel like you only learn from your own mistakes Not other peoples. in example one person said to try and play a melodic line an octave or 2 higher well im sry for me i can hit a high E just fine on scales but you give me music its kinda hard to hit a D then ill hit a high F and hardly be even worse on the D so practice how you feel like practicing
_________________
Nick P.

musicmonkey · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Jan 2002 Posts: 344

Question for Roddy,

What do you think about lip slurs? Wouldn't these be classified as just 'hitting' the high notes; or as being able to play them? Also, do you advise playing lip slurs or do you think they will create the player that can just 'hit' notes?

mm

groovinhigher · Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 6:40 pm Post subject:

Read the Frank Minear subject posting, a great method to work on your chops... Trust me, it works!

You can contact Frank @ fmtrptman@aol.com

_________________
Rich Wetzel
Trumpet Artist / Band Leader / Holton - Leblanc Clinician
"Rich Wetzel's Groovin Higher Jazz Orchestra"
http://www.richwetzel.com
http://www.groovinhigher.com

[ This Message was edited by: groovinhigher on 2003-02-07 21:41 ]

Jimbo · Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 8:07 pm Post subject:

trumpetkid11,

I would encourage you to focus on listening to solid lead players ...how they 'play' high ... listen to intonation, lines, dynamics, and articulation ... emulate them, rather than looking at measuring your absolute range. I'm a comeback player that occasionally pops out a double 'x' (a,b,c depending on the day), but am fortunate to play with a very good lead player. There is a world (emphasis here) of difference between playing a high note and playing high.

I don't mean to be overly negative ... just tryin' to steer you in the direction of makin' music, rather than blowin' notes.

Related aside: One of the coolest things about playing with Frank Minear is how musically he plays ... yes he plays high, but also with great intonation and articulation.
_________________
Jim

Practice what you don't already know!

Pops · Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 9:53 pm Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: Pops on 2003-05-13 13:38 ]

musicmonkey · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Jan 2002 Posts: 344

Pops, I like the way you simplified the levels of high note players. It makes quite a bit of sense, but to be more consistent with Roddy's assesment, couldn't you then divide all players into two types: squeakers/hitters and players? If somebody can hit up to high G, does that necessarily mean they can play up to high C (the way you grouped the numbers would imply this)?

I guess I like to ask questions...

always curious, mm

_bugleboy · Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 7:49 am Post subject:

There is only one group of high note players. In Pops words,

"...what happens when the baton hits the downbeat."

All of the squeaking, squeezing, pre-game warm up, practice room pyro technics, etc., become academic when the music starts.

If you want to view high notes as some kind Olympic Track & Field Event, that's fine. Then we're talking sports, not music. Personally I think the notes should be judged as they occur in a musical setting, not a sporting event.

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

Pops · Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 8:39 am Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: Pops on 2003-05-13 13:38 ]

anderkamp · Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2003 9:54 am Post subject:

I'm always amazed at the level of understanding that goes on in some of the threads here on TH(In a good way). It seems when I was growing up playing trumpet, I got so excited about playing a 'double g.' I was the 'man' and I could play as high as anyone out there. Since I could squeal out (hit) some thin, pinched Double C (once in a blue moon and always horrible sounding), I thought I could play like Maynard. It seems there was not much to compare myself to, and I certainly wasn't an objective listener when it came to my sound. I really wish there would have been the internet back then (only in the 80's). But I wonder if I would have really 'got it' then even. Probably not, but I at least would have heard intelligent discussions from guys like Roddy who discuss hitting v. playing notes. Great, great thoughts from Roddy. If you asked me when I was 17 what notes I owned, I would probably tell you a G..4 ledger lines or a little higher. If you ask me now what notes I own, I probably would just say a High C...2 ledger lines. This is the great thing to me about this site and about so many of the threads on the site. Just some intelligent discussions going on teaching the young guys what it really means to play the horn. GREAT Discussions. Of course, if I'd known now what I really sounded like (it was NOT pretty), I would probably be in the computer business.
I don't know how many of you guys have heard about Steve Patrick, but I thought he was certainly worth mentioning. This is not intended to be a plug for my cds, but rather letting everybody know about a player with monster chops that are completely functional. He did, by the way, just play 2nd on my new brass quintet recording and did great. Double D's that are solid AND he can record brass quintets and sound Great!
If you haven't heard Steve, then check out the link below. Steve recorded Disk 5 in my company's series of CDs for trumpet players entitled Extensions (Range). The samples are from recordings he's played on and they really sound great. I would love to get your feedback, so send me an email if you have any thoughts.

Here's the sample...It's kind of long, but worth the download.
http://www.anderkampmusic.com/url/urlmp3/stevesampler.mp3

This is not intended to be a plug for our company, but you can hear samples from his cd at our site. http://www.instrumentalresources.com

He's got a pretty great system he uses for range development, and I think you'll see that by his samples. Also, watch the new Vince Gill video and you'll see him playing on it (as well as Brooks and Dunn-he shoots that video Monday).

Sorry for the long email, I just got excited seeing great posts about range that talk intelligently. Keep on teaching you guys...It's GREAT!!!!

Jeff Anderson
http://www.instrumentalresources.com
jeff@anderkampmusic.com

musicmonkey · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Jan 2002 Posts: 344

Thanks for putting it in perspecitve bugle boy

I agree with Jeff Anderson that there is a lot of insight floating around on this site. I'm just glad that I can reap the benefits of it and hopefully contribute some insight of my own on occasion.

mm