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RMTrumpet124
Regular Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 40
Location: Pacific Palisades, CA
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 Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject: To those of you who attacked me in E-mail |
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Well,
Here is my chance to vent some steam. I got a lot of very angry e-mails about the Eclipse trumpet I sold for $1000.00 bucks. It seemed that people were furious at me for "bashing" eclipse...I just don't see it. It's only a trumpet brand, but let me explain in the open to everyone why I don't like Eclipse and why I sold the horn.
I thought the trumpet looked gorgeous, unfortunately it stopped there for me. The horn didn't have that central ressonance I was searching for, it didn't cut it live gigs or in the studio. It didn't have the warmth and depth that I seek, not even protools can add something like that.
Playing that horn was more work than it was worth to me. I want the trumpet to work for me, i don't feel like doing all of that to sound good, maybe I'm lazy?
Once I got past the honeymoon period it was just down hill for me, the fact is it's just not a great horn. I tossed in the towel and sold it. The only reason I bought it was after reading all of the hype about them, which was stupid. These horns are very expensive, and to me it has just one thing, and that's an image. It just didn't seem to live up to it.
Secondly the Company's ethics are questionable. They've roped in a poster child, Lara. She'll get a ride into any school she wants now, it's great for her, but i'm just not impressed by her playing. Why not give free trumpets to the poor guys out there busting to make it inthe professional world. The guys who need a break.
Thirdly,
The lack of traditional tuning... I hated it. Not for me.
That's my piece.
Boyd
[Edited by Moderators -- removed personal information about Lara.] |
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deleted_user_fdb91a0
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Wow...every Eclipse I tried at ITG 2006 was a very nice instrument. They were an improvement over conventional equipment in just about every way. Leigh, Bruce, and Trent were extremely friendly, helpful, down to Earth, honest, and didn't try to sell me anything. They just took pleasure in all the positive vibes people were giving off about their horns. Pricey? Sure, all custom, hand-made horns are expensive. The exchange rate from the UK to America certainly doesn't help that. This is life...sorry you bought a horn without trying it first. |
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trombapaul2
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 1889
Location: Detroit, MI
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Chalk this one up to "to each their own" and leave it at that. I get heat all
the time because I can't stand the Schilke P5-4 picc and it's alledgedly an
instrument that, if it had legs, it could walk on water. The remark about
Lara is uncalled for however. Last time she was lamenting about how much
school was going to cost her, she made no mention of Eclipse paying her way
(I assume that's what you meant by "get a ride into any school she wants").
Also, they didn't "give" her a horn...she won it in a contest. A contest you
or anybody else could have very easily won. I have to second the feeling
that Bruce, Leigh, Trent and everyone else attached to Eclipse are of the
highest integrity and their only motive is providing the best possible trumpet
they can put out there. If you don't like their product, that's fine and
entirely your choice.
Bottom line is, the sentence in your 4th paragraph should have read "the fact
is it's just not a great horn for me".
Paul
P.S. - I also HATE Bach trumpets!
_________________
"NEVER practice...ALWAYS perform" (Bud)
"NEVER look at the trombones...it only encourages them" (R. Strauss)
"What the hell does sound have to do with music?" (Charles Ives) |
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jbowman1993
Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 398
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| trombapaul2 wrote: | Bottom line is, the sentence in your 4th paragraph should have read "the fact
is it's just not a great horn for me".
! |
Thats the bottom line, for sure.
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Joe Bowman
Bangkok, Thailand |
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Leedorham
Veteran Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 243
Location: Spokompton, WA USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: To those of you who attacked me in E-mail |
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| RMTrumpet124 wrote: |
Secondly the Company's ethics are questionable. They've roped in a poster child, Lara. She'll get a ride into any school she wants now, it's great for her, but i'm just not impressed by her playing. Why not give free trumpets to the poor guys out there busting to make it inthe professional world. The guys who need a break.
Boyd |
I haven't been following this at all and could probably care less about whatever original conflict created this post but I have a big problem with this paragraph.
That is a seriously jerky thing to write. I hope you're ashamed of that.
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Trumpet: Tristar
Mouthpiece: Blessing 7c
Case: Burlap sack
Valve Oil: chicken fat & kerosene |
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mpre53
Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Olde Cape Cod
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Enjoy your life, family and friends.
Stop stressing over what a bunch of strangers, with goofy made-up internet screen names, think about you 
Life is too short to sweat the small stuff. |
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richardwy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 4308
Location: Casper, WY - The Gotham of the Prarie
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:49 am Post subject: Re: To those of you who attacked me in E-mail |
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oops
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silverstar
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 3769
Location: Solon, IA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Boyd,
First of all, I would like to ask you to remove my last name from your post. This is the internet, and I do not want any potential weirdos emailing me, calling me, etc. How rude.
Secondly, just because I have an instrument that I believe is the best horn for me (note that I didn't say the best horn for everyone), doesn't mean that I now have some "in" to college that I didn't have before. If you'd really like to know, I'm currently a University of Iowa student struggling to pay off the rest of this semester. I'm in the process of joining the Iowa National Guard to help pay for the rest of my education because I have received NO scholarships and little financial aid.
I won a contest and got to meet wonderful people, had a memorable trip, and got a gorgeous instrument. It didn't magically turn me into a great trumpet player, in fact, I'm still pretty average at best.
I would appreciate if you'd not take out your ill-feelings toward your experience with your Eclipse on me. Thanks.
Lara
_________________
I <3 my Bb Eclipse MR!!
I may falter, I may fall, but I will get back up and keep at it. Fall down 7 times, get up 8. |
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pelirrojo173
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 1040
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I do not want any potential weirdos emailing me, calling me, etc. |
Or facebooking 
- Pete A |
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WildCat
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 1820
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| pelirrojo173 wrote: | | Quote: | | I do not want any potential weirdos emailing me, calling me, etc. |
Or facebooking
- Pete A |
Captain, the Creepy Reading is off the charts!
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Vince K. |
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silverstar
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 3769
Location: Solon, IA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Haha, very funny.
Is it just me, or has facebook really gotten a little creepy since it introduced its 'news feed'?
Back on subject though:
Boyd, I really would appreciate an apology. My trumpet playing isn't supposed to impress anyone. It's what I do because I like to play music. It's my escape from the rest of the world when I just can't take it anymore. It may be a bit selfish, but that's what music is for me. It's my hobby and one of my passions. Just because I'm not going 'big time' or trying to use music as a way to earn my daily bread doesn't mean that I'm any less deserving of a nice instrument.
Thanks,
Lara
_________________
I <3 my Bb Eclipse MR!!
I may falter, I may fall, but I will get back up and keep at it. Fall down 7 times, get up 8. |
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AverageJoe
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 4116
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Boyd --
Sorry the axe didn't work for you, and I'm sorry that you've been treated the way you've been treated by some here. It seems that there are some misconceptions you've had about how the company is run, and I hope those are cleared up for you. I hope that everyone else will just let it be now. Eclipse horns aren't for everyone, and I would venture to guess that even Leigh McKinney is capable of letting one slip out the door that shouldn't go. He is as human as I am.
Lara -- I think it is obvious that Boyd misunderstood your connection with Eclipse. No offense meant, but you're in no position to be an artist spokesperson for a manufacturer (of course, neither am I). Probably best to just let it go.
Paul Poovey |
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silverstar
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 3769
Location: Solon, IA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Paul,
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a spokesperson for anyone. I guess the thing about not being impressed by my playing upset me, mainly because I don't play in order to impress anyone. That's what I was trying to say. If it is just a misunderstanding, I am sorry that I got upset like I did.
Lara
_________________
I <3 my Bb Eclipse MR!!
I may falter, I may fall, but I will get back up and keep at it. Fall down 7 times, get up 8. |
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AverageJoe
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 4116
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry about my bluntness, Lara, but that was exactly my point -- Boyd obviously thought you were something akin to an Eclipse Performing Artist (like Trent Austin). When you have that as a preconceived notion, it is easy to "not be impressed" with anything less (again, myself included in the "not impressive" category).
Bygones?
Paul |
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WildCat
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 1820
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| silverstar wrote: | Haha, very funny.
Is it just me, or has facebook really gotten a little creepy since it introduced its 'news feed'? |
If you're asking me directly, I offer a shrug of lacking knowledge. I'm too old for that stuff anyway, or...too lazy. Whichever's most prevalent, or...something. (See, there's the laziness kicking in.)
| Quote: | I guess the thing about not being impressed by my playing upset me, mainly because I don't play in order to impress anyone...
...My trumpet playing isn't supposed to impress anyone. It's what I do because I like to play music. |
Problem...solved? 
| AverageJoe wrote: | | ...Boyd obviously thought you were something akin to an Eclipse Performing Artist (like Trent Austin). When you have that as a preconceived notion, it is easy to "not be impressed" with anything less (again, myself included in the "not impressive" category). |
Sorry if I'm opening a can of worms, kicking the wrong dog, or tapping the glass here, but...
Whether Lara is an Eclipse artist or not, being someone who holds one in her hands, and being as how Leigh runs a small operation, she's a good selling point to anyone who pays attention to her. Think about it for a second though; we use the appeal of women to sell cars, market internet dating sites, bring men into bars, and so on. Being as how Lara seems to be at least an attractive female personality (Lara, I'm not hitting on you, I swear), she's a walking billboard to anyone who wants to ask what kind of horn she has with the funny tuning slide. This isn't meant to be a sexist statement, but female trumpet players always gain notoriety at a rapid rate, no matter their playing skill. I'm sure a lot of people can think back to middle or high school, and remember how many of the male trumpet players though the chick with a horn was cute. If someone female is a legitimately good player (Susan Slaughter, Ingrid Jensen, etc.) it's a definite plus, but in some cases in a world powered by sexual drive, it's not always a total necessity. I can actually think of a bunch of chick trumpet player I know who I think suck, for the amount of attention they're given. At the same time, I can think of a larger amount of male players who I feel the same way toward. Mathematically, the ratio is higher among the women. If anything, more women should play trumpet. If there was a larger pool to draw from, more wonderful players would emerge, and perhaps the trend of it sometimes being a modeling job might come to a halt over the next decade or so.
In all reality, the Eclipse contest isn't a random drawing, and Leigh can very well select someone he thinks will be good PR for his business. There's nothing in the rules against that, and Leigh just happens to make the rules. It's a nice gesture for the person getting a horn, it boosts morale among the internet trumpet community that it's not a fully dying art, and Leigh sells a bunch of horns thanks to it all.
Did I say anything that wasn't true?
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Vince K. |
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Dave H
Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 153
Location: Seaside, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| AverageJoe wrote: | | Eclipse horns aren't for everyone, and I would venture to guess that even Leigh McKinney is capable of letting one slip out the door that shouldn't go. He is as human as I am. |
I bought an Eclipse not so very long ago. There was a small problem with the horn. Leigh was contacted, and he made it right, at no cost. I tried two Eclipse trumpets before I bought. I tried an MR, then an LR. If the OP bought before he tried it, he really has no legitimate complaint with Eclipse.
If you don't like the horn, fine. Want to sell it cheap, or even give it away? No problem. But to call their ethics questionable, based on conjectures that are not based on fact, is irresponsible. |
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Dave H
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Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 153
Location: Seaside, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| WildCat wrote: | Whether Lara is an Eclipse artist or not, being someone who holds one in her hands, and being as how Leigh runs a small operation, she's a good selling point to anyone who pays attention to her. Think about it for a second though; we use the appeal of women to sell cars, market internet dating sites, bring men into bars, and so on. Being as how Lara seems to be at least an attractive female personality (Lara, I'm not hitting on you, I swear), she's a walking billboard to anyone who wants to ask what kind of horn she has with the funny tuning slide.
In all reality, the Eclipse contest isn't a random drawing, and Leigh can very well select someone he thinks will be good PR for his business. There's nothing in the rules against that, and Leigh just happens to make the rules. It's a nice gesture for the person getting a horn, it boosts morale among the internet trumpet community that it's not a fully dying art, and Leigh sells a bunch of horns thanks to it all. |
Dude, have you seen Chuck's picture?   
And do you really think if he was trying to sell more horns, he would have chosen a high school student? (no offense Lara) |
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WildCat
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 1820
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave H wrote: | Dude, have you seen Chuck's picture?
And do you really think if he was trying to sell more horns, he would have chosen a high school student? (no offense Lara) |
Nobody works as a perfect paragon of what they know will be beneficial to them. It's possible that it one day dawns on someone that they can steal candy from a baby if they do it once in a while, but in great frequency, there are going to be a lot of kids crying, and some angry moms looking for semi-moist novelty lollipops. Another example: I'm a jerk to a lot of people on the forum. I post some helpful stuff though (or at least try to), and don't pitch an attitude when I feel people are actually trying to help themselves.
Why not Lara though? She seems to have some fans here who have enough money to buy a new horn. Even if giving one horn away sells just enough to make up for the loss of profit (however much that may be), word will have gotten further out, and the possibility of more sales opens up. Vincent Bach didn't start making the horn when he first got off the boat. He made some good ones, sold them to people, they talked to others and let them play their horns, and Bach started making more and more money. How many orchestras, in his early days, bought entire sets of horns after having one (or a number of) their players try one out? To balance out that topic for anyone who might argue that I'm hyping Bach, how many people didn't like them then? How many people don't like them now? Eclipse?
Besides, the girl's 18, and so long as she doesn't complain about it, it's not against the law (just like real life, only with less of a motivation to take a shower). Again, guys like women. Guys like young women more (on average). Women will pay attention to other female brass players, feeling a kinship on some level. If anything, giving a horn to someone female might just be the smartest marketing move since anything Dave Monette did to move products.
And once again to balance it out, I'm not directly saying that this is all of what happened. I don't know anything for sure, since I'm not the people involved. However, I'm offering this as a possibility, since people seem to be scratching their heads about what to think within this thread. ...That, and I have nothing better to do than type right now. I'm wired on coffee.
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Vince K. |
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Dave H
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Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 153
Location: Seaside, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| From what I can see, Leigh is promoting his company and his product in a much more general way by holding the contest. It is called good will, and it is good business. |
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WildCat
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 1820
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave H wrote: | | From what I can see, Leigh is promoting his company and his product in a much more general way by holding the contest. It is called good will, and it is good business. |
But that's just the thing right there. I know you're well read in all the Eclipse stuff, or you wouldn't be posting something intelligible, but that's exactly what the psychology that could possibly be behind the whole would entice someone to respond with. Yes, Leigh's given some horns to people who maybe weren't lookers (Chuck's not my type of girl ), but just that once, in the back of his mind, while sifting through contest entries (many of which might've been so inane and generally stupid that they went straight to the trash can), might he have thought, "Hey, my up-and-coming business needs some attention, this girls gets attention from potential buyers, so through the transitive property..." Light bulb moment!
Even what we're doing right now, discussing Leigh's horns, whether it be in a positive or negative way, he's gaining something. No publicity is bad publicity when something's seen as an untouchable item. This has proved true for celebrities (take your pick), and at this point in time, Leigh's horns have gained enough word-of-mouth momentum but are still out of the price range of the average trumpet player making his/her way and paying bills, the mystique is there. Dave Monette did this (I like Dave's mouthpiece, by the way, and his horns [only] when accompanied by them), and I'd say he's doing alright. Monette trumpets are "that horn Wynton played in the first video we ever watched in band". From day one, kids will wonder about them. As they get older, maybe they'll research. With a little more time, if they're wired that way, they'll start coveting the instruments, and if they go on to earn a good enough living that includes some disposable income, they might even buy one. Wynton is a good selling point because of what he is, as was Maynard Ferguson (though I do believe that Dave has a special place in his heart for all said figures, and truly does see them as friends in addition to just colleagues, business partners, or whatever else).
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