To those of you who attacked me in E-mail

[swthiel]

WildCat --

The issue here isn't whether or not the contest is part of Eclipse's marketing (I'm confident it is) or that the winner of the contest will receive public attention (of course the winner will be) or that the winner of the contest isn't a monster player (that wasn't part of the contest rules and Lara never made any claim to greatness).

To my mind at least, the issue is this statement by the original poster:

[RMTrumpet124]

I don't see why this requires an apology barring one thing. Sorry about your last name, every one already knows it...

Why would they use a High school student?

Point and case:
Ruben Simeo (14 years old?) and Fides Trumpets:

[tptfrbrains]

What is your point?
I don't know about anything that came before your rant on this thread, but it seems to me that you are complaining about young people being "used" for marketing, when you believe pros, or those that will be arbitrarily decided upon as "almost pros" should have this benefit.
I make my living playing the trumpet. It's a very good living, from both an artistic and financial point of view. I have never asked for, or received anything free from a manufacturer. I have though, had the pleasure, and advantage of working with both a very fine mouthpiece manufacturer and a company that builds wonderful trumpets, making products that were suited to my needs, which I paid full price for, but which other people have also found helpful.
I think this is fair. I can afford to pay for the tools which enable me to make my living. Any break a student can get on something as expensive as a musical instrument is fine with me.
I know another trumpet manufacturer who was asked by one of the most famous trumpet soloists in the world today what he would have to pay for two piccolo trumpets. The maker said something like "The price of the trumpets is X." The soloist was put off a bit and said that he gets his instruments from Selmer and Schilke for free. The manufacturer answered that in order for him to give the instruments away to rich soloists he would have to charge more for them when students bought them. He preferred doing it the other way around.
I know this to have happened. I was there. I also believe that the trumpet maker was absolutely correct in his convictions.
Lara, you've done fine, and don't let others goad you into feeling angry. I find the original poster's remarks about you to be in incredibly poor taste, but you can't control what others think. Don't wait for an apology. It's not worth your time. Enjoy your trumpet, and expend your energy on things that are useful.

r.

P.S. One belated typo correction.

[trumpetmike]

Boyd - that is different; he is being used as a "featured artist".
Lara won a contest, it is that simple.
If you want to see why she won the contest, do your research and visit Trumpetmaster - read her entry, see why she won.
Some of us do know Lara's second name, I would guess that there are more people on TH/TM that know her as Lara Silverstar, rather than knowing her actual surname.


Coming on to any internet forum and saying that you didn't get on with an instrument is fine, in my book. There are plenty of other people who are not so keen on Bach (me included), Yamaha, Schilke, everything (even Eclipse), but questioning the ethics of a company because they run a contest and the winner is a young lady is a VERY different matter.

Did you try an Eclipse before you purchased one?
If you went just on the reviews you read online you have just acquired some valuable information for the future - what works for some players may not work for everyone.
FOR MEthe Eclipse flugel I play is simply the finest flugel I have ever played, for someone else it quite possibly won't be (in fact, I know this to be true - a good friend prefers his Bach). The important words hiave been capitalised and put in bold, just to make it obvious - it is the right instrument FOR ME.
The Eclipse might not have been a great horn FOR YOU, but there is no reason to say that it might not be one for someone else. Personally I would be more inclined to take your words seriously if you had the common courtesy to include the fact that what you are saying is purely a personal opinion rather than the way you imply it is an established fact that Eclipse "is just not a great horn."
Do you want to be the one that tells some of their Eclipse Artists about this?
There are players on there who, quite frankly, are some of the best you are going to find, who have decided that the Eclipse works FOR THEMin what they do. You don't see any of them saying that those instruments are the only ones anyone else should buy, but they do say that the Eclipse range works FOR THEM.

If you seriously think that Lara will "get a ride into any school she wants now" you have a lot to learn about the school entry system. It doesn't matter what instrument is being held in a student's hand, it is what comes out of the end that matters.


A word of advice, next time you read some reviews online, take the time and effort to try an instrument BEFORE you buy. If you don't do this, don't feel that you are then justified in complaining that it doesn't meet your expectations.
There is no brand that is perfect for everyone, regardless of price and hype. Find one that works FOR YOUand play it.

For me, it is your ethics that are dubious, not those of Leigh and Eclipse.

[MFMeow]

[Dave H]

[richardwy]

ick
_________________
1972 Selmer Radial

[AYates]

[Dave H]

[AverageJoe]

You know, it just dawned on me that the reason this thread exists is because some over-zealous Eclipse patriots chose to vilify Boyd for giving a detailed description of a horn he was selling...at around 1/3 of it's street value, I might add.

Perhaps Boyd isn't the only one who should be apologizing here?...

Stirring the pot,

Paul

[RMTrumpet124]

Well paul has good sense (thanks for being a gentleman), but let's just let this post die. I'm to old to be fighting anyone, even on the internet.


I have my trusty axes on my side and I'll be going into the studio tomorrow morning happy as can be. The horn is sold, no harm done.


Boyd

[AYates]

[trumpetmike]

[Ohanapecosh]

Exactly Mike, plus let's not forget the emails sent to Boyd were done in PRIVATE. No one would have known that he had even gotten emails if he hadn't posted this thread. Boyd brought this "second wave" of public discourse upon himself.

His initial ad, in my opinion, where he sold a horn well below market value, was to make a point. To make a point like he did just seemed petty. It seemed to me he wanted this fight with the ad and then brought more venom into it by personalizing his attacks by starting a thread. He made a mistake and took it out on Eclipse and the horn. I essentially thought "wow, what a drama queen!" after the first ad.

There are going to be a lot of people who try Eclipse (or place your horn name here) that are going to say "it doesn't have that sound I'm looking for" or "it's just not the horn for me." That's fine, any horn player is going to deal with that or has already done that many times in their career. Yet in Boyd's case, is it the manufacturers fault that the horn didn't suit him? Did someone force him to buy the horn first without playing it? Did he take one look at Lara and think "my gosh! she's a babe, I've got to have that horn", somehow lured by a sorted marketing scheme by Eclipse? I think not.

Not one person on this forum owes Boyd an apology. Boyd made a mistake, didn't man-up and accept that he and he alone was responsible for the decision and he alone made a production out of selling a horn that otherwise would have gone unnoticed. If there were attacks about the ad and Eclipse they were doen in private.

The only thing I regret is that I didn't buy the horn at $1000. I thought it was a scam not someone wanting to "cut his nose off despite his face". He attacked good people and to some of us good friends on an open forum and now he wants to "just let this post die." Once again Boyd, you opened this up, take some responsibility and apologize, then it will die.

"Stirring the pot,"

[Mikeytrpt]

I also saw the ad and did not believe it. IF the horn really did sell for 1k, I missed out on a great deal....

The horn, if it was a gold plated MR, was worth at least 4 grand, retail price. Why would someone take that much of a loss, knowing the horn would easily have sold for a lot more?

Something does not add up here.......

[Dave H]

For me, the reason this thread continued had little to do with Boyd's discussion of the trumpet. I was upset with his characterization of the company, which was based on erroneous information.
_________________
Eclipse LR trumpet
Getzen Eterna flugelhorn
Curry 3. series mouthpieces
Leather TorpedoBag
Wiseman trumpet/flugel case

[Mikeytrpt]

I agree with you.

[mike ansberry]

I'm coming into this discussion kind of late, but thought I'd add my 2 cents. I have no problem with anyone liking or disliking any particular horn. For people to send Boyd emails villifying (spelling?) for disliking a particular horn and selling it is pretty poor. But for him to put down the ethics of Leigh's company for me is the problem. I've never seen Leigh touting Laura as an Eclipse representative. I frequent this site and TM and have never seen Leigh use Laura at all to sell a horn. Leigh gave me a horn as a second prize in the contest two years ago. The fact that for me it is a fine instrument really has nothing to do with this post. Leigh has never used me in any way to sell horns. I'm a 3rd rate hack player who got lucky. I would imagine the contest itself attracts a lot of attention for First Class Brass. Can't see where that is bad business. In my opinion, Leigh and company are really first class (brass).

Mike
_________________
Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.

[AverageJoe]

[Mikeytrpt]

If "Boyd" wants to sell an Eclipse for 1k, that is his business. The problem came in when he questioned Eclipse's quality and ethics. The horn did not work FOR HIM. Not every horn works for everybody.