Remedies for Sticking Valve

skip77 · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:01 am Post subject: Reply to Craig

Good tips - thanks very much. When this string finally ends I'll print the whole thing and save it for future reference. I like the shotgun cleaning supply ideas - will pick up a kit from my local supplier. Thanks again.

LittleRusty · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:43 am Post subject:

I have a question about the clash between oils. Should one use some sort of degreaser in addition to Dawn to ensure the old oil is all removed?

bilboinsa · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject:

Dawn contains degreasers.
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LittleRusty · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject:

Yes dawn does, and it doesn't really do a very good job, hence the question.

skip77 · Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: Ultrapure Valve Oil

To all that posted in this string - thanks so much. I appreciate all the great suggestions. I am writing again to report an interesting development that is pretty much the same experience reported by a couple players in this topic and here it is:

My transaction with Jason concluded yesterday with the arrival of the Monette B6 mpc modification. Jason included in that package, a VROOM microfiber cloth which he suggested I use when cleaning the valve pistons, two viscosities of valve grease and one bottle of UltraPure valve oil.

Guess what? Having done nothing to remedy the problem since starting this thread, I simply applied a few drops of UltraPure to my sticking valve and wonder of wonders... the thing immediately started to free itself! A few depressions and it was getting better by the minute. Today, after the horn sat overnight, I retrieved it and the piston is free and clear as if nothing had ever happened. Amazing. I can only figure that adding different oils to the piston without removing the UltraPure that had been applied by Jason, caused some undesirable reaction that mucked up the works?

Anyway, UltraPure valve oil is the only solution I needed! Thanks again to all. By the way, the B6 mod by Jason is bangin!

MrMac · New Member Joined: 16 Feb 2019 Posts: 1

Hi fellow trumpet pickers! I’ve been reading all of the replies regarding sticky valve should appreciate the wealth of possible remedies. I have a Bach Strad that has recently developed second and third valve issues. I have tried the toothpaste and have made sure that the valves and the casings were cleaned properly and thoroughly and still have a sticking valve problem. I used to use blue juice until I learned that it creates build up quickly so I will choose some other oil that has been suggested here. Has anyone used cleaning vinegar to clean their valves? Think I saw that once in the forum but there was no opinion of the results.

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441

I suggest augmenting your reading with this piece by Robb Stewart.

https://www.robbstewart.com/valve-problems

If there is sufficient build-up on the pistons themselves to become an issue, typically it is visible and certainly can be detected as the piston surface "feeling wrong" in your fingers.

When someone says they have developed a stick in third, or second & third abruptly, I always start looking for the subtle shiny spot that develops on the nickel if a slide has been bumped.

As for vinegar, it is a mild acid and acts as one would expect as far as cleaning. But you have to be very careful about not leaving any inside the hollow piston where it can do damage over time, and can seep back out adding to the other elements attacking your casings.
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deleted_user_680e93b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

Manuel de los Campos · Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Sticky valves

grune · Regular Member Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 67

1/ For the intrepid, a DIY approach to clean the bore and polish the pistons can achieve great results.
2/ For the vast majority, a visit to a reputable repair shop is in order.
3/ Assuming the "expert" sees nothing wrong with valves and bores, the culprit is the quality of oil. The oils of today are great synthetics, odourless; but I find they emulsify rather quickly from the humid, human air we blow through the horns - thus become sticky. [The oils in the olden days were true distillates: very "aromatic", who knows what carcinogens, but did not emulsify]. Using the synthetics, I find I need daily to remove the pistons from the bore, wipe them with a tissue, insert and repeat, then add fresh oil. Sometimes, I will use "rubbing alcohol" to clean bore and piston [a safe degreaser].
4/ And now for the great, controversial comment..... The piston surface should have a nice, consistent sheen. Often, I see very shiny pistons with vertical grooves. These stick - mine did. Very long ago, I delved into automotive engines, and learned an engine bore must never be shiny like a mirror: it must have a sheen, and the bore must have x-cross hairline "scratches". These trap the oil, so the piston can be properly lubricated. Believe it or not, I polished my Bach monel pistons to have x-cross hairlines in the sheen - and voila, no more sticky valves. They are smooth, with excellent "compression".
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Gatsby77 · Regular Member Joined: 25 Feb 2019 Posts: 15 Location: VA

Try not mixing oils of different brands or chemical make up, synthetic and non . If you switch you should clean well with soapy water, dont forget to remove felts and corks. try to put things back ,corks felts springs .on the same pistons you took out . Make sure piston stem has not turned out( unscrewed) a bit. I make sure mine can be loosened then snug down gently. Dont force anything . Force is relative, then before you insert piston all the way or if you are careful, oil the piston with a drop or two, place piston in case, line up valve guide to casing detent , look inside for alignment oil some more , piston may actually slide into casing on its own . Pistons should be numbered 1 2 3 . you know the drill . I actually pull the slides and put in a drop or two into visible ports. to reach pistons . every now and then . Usually I oil cornet / trumpet before I put it to bed rather than before practice with Hetman# 3 for older looser and La Tromba T2 for tighter valves . Both are synthetic and appear to be compatible as well . And they last quite a long time for a spitter like me . I have found very little residue with LaTromba T2 but it's a bit pricey so be aware .
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SAdoc · New Member Joined: 03 Jun 2018 Posts: 5

I’ve got a Strad that had a sticking valves that drove me crazy. I tried multiple oils, cleaned the valves with vinegar, chem clean by a music store, etc. nothing helped.
The thing that finally worked was adding a few drops of Breakfree CLP ( a gun cleaner/lube) to the valve oil. Ultrapure with a few drops of CLP and the valves on that horn are great, but anytime I try it without the CLP they start sticking again.

LittleRusty · Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:20 pm Post subject:

Gatsby77 · Regular Member Joined: 25 Feb 2019 Posts: 15 Location: VA

Little Rusty has a good point on not oiling through the slide ports . I wont contest it . I should have elaborated. I do that every now and then after a major cleaning of all parts of the instrument. If you have a doubt refrain from that oiling . I am completely in agreement with his dont oil through he bottom caps ever . The general idea is to let the oil wash the cylinder down to the bottom . Oiling through the slide ports can also dislodge detrious material from with in the piston ports if the pistons havnt been removed and cleaned completely . Thanks Little Rusty
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SirOtterman · New Member Joined: 15 May 2019 Posts: 2

grune · Regular Member Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 67

JayKosta · Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 4:23 am Post subject: Re: try...

Brad361 · Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 6:54 am Post subject:

I don’t know guys, it seems to me like there are reasons that guys like Steve Winans, Charlie Melk, etc. are as well known and respected for their expertise in valve work as they are. DIY is fine, but personally if I have a valve problem that regular cleaning doesn’t seem to address, the horn gets sent to a pro. Remedies like toothpaste or hardware store cleaners and solvents? Not me.

Brad
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Crazy Finn · Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:46 am Post subject:

lipshurt · Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 10:13 am Post subject:

Sticking valves are 90 percent of the time due to loose fitting pistons. Lapping compound or other abrasive will only make worse. Looser fitting pistons require thicker oil. I’ve tried EVERY vintage style oil including home brews and the best hands down is BERP BIOoil heavy. Total game changer and does not shift around like Yamaha vintage or hetmans or all of the other synthetics including those made by great cool guys who make awesome videos.

The other 10 percent of the time it’s something like pressure on the casing from slide tubes. Heating or degreasing the slide tubes can fix that. If you use compound on a stressed casing the compound just wears the casing where the pressure is and the pressure keeps making it stick round and round until the casing is shot. If the second valve slide has been pushed from dropping etc, you can pull it the other way to free up the valve. Then over the course of a few days you can pull pressure on the slide to make it better. Too much pressure and it’s messed up the other way so go easy. It will better for maybe a day and then it will spring back to the pressured position. Tug again every day until it stays that way. Maybe ten times once every day for ten days. That’s only if it’s not too bad to begin with but you can fix a bad sticking 2nd valve that way for free with no death compound.
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