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JCBb
Regular Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 58
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 Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:06 am Post subject: Clearing Horn w/o Water Key |
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Just picked up a Kanstul Chicago Bb a short while ago. Nice horn, I'm diggin it. But, it doesn't have a water key on the 3rd valve slide. I'm finding it cumbersome to go thru the horn gyrations (upwards, sideways, upside over and down) trying to get it to drain. I left a message at Kanstul about the possibility of buying a 3rd valve slide with a key, but never received an answer. Anyone have any tricks to share?
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Dale Proctor
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Joined: 26 May 2005
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Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Doesn't the end section of the slide pull out separately from the rest of the slide (a la Bach Strad)? If so, just pull it out to dump the water. If not, I'd have a water key installed on your 3rd slide.
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dmh737
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
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Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: |
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If it's like the old Benges, it's like Dale said. It should pull out for drainage.
Dave
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JCBb
Regular Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: 3rd Valve Slide |
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No, unfortunately, it has a captive stop.
http://www.hornguys.com/Images/CHI%201000.jpg
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PiCK Kanstul
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Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 704
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| It has a dump slide. just hold onto the finger ring, and pull the end of the slide off. just like the Bach strads. |
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Dale Proctor
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Joined: 26 May 2005
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Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: 3rd Valve Slide |
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I'm talking about the very end of the slide - just the curved piece. See if it will pull out separately from the rest of the slide.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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brem
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 622
Location: Quebec City, QC, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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Is the end of the third slide of my Bach Strad supposed to move? If so, it has been stuck for 19 years 
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Martin Breton
Yamaha YTR-8335RGS - Bach 5C
Bach Stradivarius Bb Model 37 * #124xxx (circa 1975)
Yamaha YFH-731 Flugelhorn #000xxx - Yamaha 14F4-GP
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JCBb
Regular Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: Well, I'll be... |
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Yep, you're right!
See, now that's why I post here. Fast, accurate answers. Thanks!
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brem
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
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Location: Quebec City, QC, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, so now how do I unstuck mine? 
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Martin Breton
Yamaha YTR-8335RGS - Bach 5C
Bach Stradivarius Bb Model 37 * #124xxx (circa 1975)
Yamaha YFH-731 Flugelhorn #000xxx - Yamaha 14F4-GP
Getzen Eterna 940
Conn Connquest 20A Cornet 1954
Yamaha YCR-2330S Cornet |
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cjl
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Location: TN
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| brem wrote: | | Is the end of the third slide of my Bach Strad supposed to move? |
My Bb's all have removable end slides. However, my 239 C, which did not come with the threaded stop rod like my Bb has, does not have a dump slide. To my knowledge, that is ...
Bach's with a threaded stop rod should have a dump slide. If a threaded stop rod was added later, it is possible to not have the dump slide, I suppose. |
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MFMeow
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Joined: 16 Oct 2006
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Location: Philly suburbs
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| brem wrote: | | Is the end of the third slide of my Bach Strad supposed to move? If so, it has been stuck for 19 years |
My Strad is a '74 not too far from yours (SN 1016xx). The end of my third slide comes off.
Kirsten
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Dale Proctor
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Joined: 26 May 2005
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Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| cjl wrote: | | ....However, my 239 C, which did not come with the threaded stop rod like my Bb has, does not have a dump slide. To my knowledge, that is .... |
Mine doesn't, either, but it's an older one without any kind of stop mechanism on the 3rd valve slide. Without a stop, it's just as easy to pull the whole slide, anyway.
JCBb, glad to help, and glad you asked. It saved you some grief and/or expense down the line.
BTW, the dump slide on my Bb Strad was so hard to remove (and I worked with it a lot) that I took it to the local brass tech and had him install a Bach 3rd valve slide water key on it. Problem solved. 
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham
Last edited by Dale Proctor on Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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brem
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Joined: 25 Sep 2007
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Location: Quebec City, QC, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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It's soaking in WD-40 as we speak. 
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Martin Breton
Yamaha YTR-8335RGS - Bach 5C
Bach Stradivarius Bb Model 37 * #124xxx (circa 1975)
Yamaha YFH-731 Flugelhorn #000xxx - Yamaha 14F4-GP
Getzen Eterna 940
Conn Connquest 20A Cornet 1954
Yamaha YCR-2330S Cornet |
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trptdaddy
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
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Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| brem wrote: | | It's soaking in WD-40 as we speak. |
After the good soak, take the entire third slide off the horn, and thread some thick shoe string (or something similar - not too thin that will leave a crease in slide or hand) inside the crook and give it several good "pops". Hold on tight to the slide, and keep small children and breakable things away from the dump slide exit area (don't ask how I know that).
David |
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brem
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Location: Quebec City, QC, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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hahahahah
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Martin Breton
Yamaha YTR-8335RGS - Bach 5C
Bach Stradivarius Bb Model 37 * #124xxx (circa 1975)
Yamaha YFH-731 Flugelhorn #000xxx - Yamaha 14F4-GP
Getzen Eterna 940
Conn Connquest 20A Cornet 1954
Yamaha YCR-2330S Cornet |
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tommy t.
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Joined: 01 Mar 2002
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Location: Wasatch Mountains
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| trptdaddy wrote: | | ... take the entire third slide off the horn, and thread some thick shoe string (or something similar - not too thin that will leave a crease in slide or hand) inside the crook and give it several good "pops". Hold on tight to the slide, and keep small children and breakable things away from the dump slide exit area (don't ask how I know that).
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I got my first Schilke shortly after trying a very similar manuever on my Selmer light weight K Mod trumpet.
Trying to get the third slide loose after a summer on cornet, I ran a light wash cloth through the crook, tied it to a heating pipe at the top of the stairs and gave a pull. The slide came free with a single good tug -- that is, it broke free of the solder joints at the third valve and the whole thing came off. The recoil caused me to fall back and take a tumble down my basement stairs, most of the horn in hand. The slide, still stuck by the way, was not otherwise damaged but the third valve didn't work anymore and the bell and lead pipe looked like somebody had fallen down a stairway with it.
Tommy T.
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Tootsall
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Joined: 05 May 2002
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| A few bucks and a trip to the service tech is a wiser investment with a better ROI at this point. |
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trptdaddy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
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Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| tommy t. wrote: | | trptdaddy wrote: | | ... take the entire third slide off the horn, and thread some thick shoe string (or something similar - not too thin that will leave a crease in slide or hand) inside the crook and give it several good "pops". Hold on tight to the slide, and keep small children and breakable things away from the dump slide exit area (don't ask how I know that).
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I got my first Schilke shortly after trying a very similar manuever on my Selmer light weight K Mod trumpet.
Trying to get the third slide loose after a summer on cornet, I ran a light wash cloth through the crook, tied it to a heating pipe at the top of the stairs and gave a pull. The slide came free with a single good tug -- that is, it broke free of the solder joints at the third valve and the whole thing came off. The recoil caused me to fall back and take a tumble down my basement stairs, most of the horn in hand. The slide, still stuck by the way, was not otherwise damaged but the third valve didn't work anymore and the bell and lead pipe looked like somebody had fallen down a stairway with it.
Tommy T. |
Is that when you found out the K-Mod's don't have dump slides?
David |
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KanstulBrass
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2003
Posts: 714
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Clearing Horn w/o Water Key |
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| JCBb wrote: | | Just picked up a Kanstul Chicago Bb a short while ago. Nice horn, I'm diggin it. But, it doesn't have a water key on the 3rd valve slide. I'm finding it cumbersome to go thru the horn gyrations (upwards, sideways, upside over and down) trying to get it to drain. I left a message at Kanstul about the possibility of buying a 3rd valve slide with a key, but never received an answer. Anyone have any tricks to share? |
Hello,
I'm sorry I haven't seen your email yet.
The third slide is made with a "pull" (or, as some have referred to it here, as a "dump" slide)
If you want to buy a new slide with the water key, call us at (714) 563-1000. We can also provide you with a water key that a technician could install for you, or you could just send us the slide and we'll put a water key on it for you.
regards,
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Charles G Hargett
Brass Industry Consultant
(Kanstul, Shires, BAC, Benge) |
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