The Yamaha "Z" , yes or no?????

clarion89 · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 3:56 pm Post subject:

Hey, I had to use my Yamaha Z trumpet at a wedding this weekend because my Bach 37 is in the shop. I played the "Prayer of St. Gregory" on it and IMO, it handled the piece very well for a "so-called" jazz horn. I don't think any trumpet player listening would have known any better what kind of horn I was using. It can handle the legit stuff just fine. Try it for yourself.

I agree with one of the above posters, that you have to get used to this horn. It does not play like other trumpets. It took me about a month to really get used to the set-up. I am very acclimated to this horn and can switch around with ease between it and my Bach Strad. I use the same mpc, Bob Reeves 43C, with both horns. I do believe there is a slight difference in sound between the Yamaha and the Bach, but one that does not take away from the overall performance and musicality of the pieces being performed.
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oneeyedhobbit · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 4:29 pm Post subject:

Wow, didn't know I had already posted on this thread, so feel free to disregard the below!

Depends on what you are looking for-the Z is great for jazz and lead, some people also swear by it for legit. Personally, I think its a bit too bright (as many have said) for legit and hard to blend with a section-nonetheless, an excellent horn if applied correctly.

That being said, you might look into the Yammie Xeno's if you are so inclined, or the older heavyweight Mark II's (6335/6345, the 45 is larger bore, as it is on the Xeno). These play almost just as well, but are more than a tad cheaper. I would heavily recommend you try a Conn Vintage One, it isn't that much more than what you are looking at, and is a wonderful all around player, that can be tailored to one genre of music with the additional slide and valve cap weights, if one is so inclined to make it so.

[ This Message was edited by: oneeyedhobbit on 2003-09-01 19:31 ]

E.D.Lewis · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 5:06 pm Post subject:

I'm no expert, but I think the following is close to the truth:
The Z horn was "inspired" by the step bore design of the Schilke B6 and B7. It is not a clone of either, but is closer to the B7. The Z horn is a step bore horn but is smaller throughout and has the bigger bell, like the B7. The B6 bell is made of copper and that, combined with the smaller size, gives the horn a warmer, more centered sound. I owned one for a while and really dug it - used it for everything very successfully (from a sonoral standpoint). Used Schilkes are hard to come by, but If you can find a used B6 I'd go for it.

For a solid all around horn I'll also recommend the Yamaha XenoRGS. That is my current horn and I love it. I use it for all kinds of playing - wind ensemble, orchestral, quintet, bigband, salsa, small group jazz, all kinds. Another good all 'rounder would be the Conn V1. I find the Mike Vax a little bright for legit playing, but that's me.

Remember, the mouthpiece often makes more difference than the horn. Good luck in your search and have fun!
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_dcstep · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 5:55 pm Post subject:

plankowner110 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3622

The new Conn 1B Vintage One is truly an all-purpose trumpet. Be sure to give it a try along with the Xeno, Bach, and some other models mentioned above. You'll find the horn you like at around $1300.
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drunkiq · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:31 pm Post subject:

ahh,

The Yamaha copy of a Schike, all becase an artist want to have a horn with his name on it and make royalties.... heck artruo did it by coping a hight quality Schilke X3 and putting a leblanc logo ont a cheap copy of it..

so how many here that are recommending a z horn that put it up against a Schilke B6 and B7 - and for the one that found the z hron stuffy, did you try a Schilke b1 wich is more open or even the x3 for those with huge lungs, heck they have like 14 standard horn, each witha tunable bell opion, up to three bell materials and 3 bell tapers, if the z horn was modeled off of a Schilke than maybe there line is worth a look at if you liked it at all....

and what are the other yamaha suggestions on this thread - a copy of a bach strad? well at least yamaha has a better quality rep then bach and you can order it off line with out having to try it out... I cannot disagree there - I would hate to order 10 strads and half to pick the best one.....

sorry someone had to say it... - the valim is kicking in pretty good i tell you, I am calling it as i see it...

-marc

_dcstep · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 4:44 am Post subject:

Tim80 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 1415

I've owned a Schilke B1 and a Yamaha Z. I kept trying to find excuses for selling the Z horn. I think the longer you play it the more it grows on you. Well I still have it and I've got the B1 and a Lawler 21b/2 up for sale now. The Lawlers leadpipe is too big for me. A smaller leadpipe would probably work but I feel comfortable on the Z horn. The little Shew trumpet feels almost like a Martin Committee in the hand. In fact I understand the original Yamaha was influenced by the Committee. The similarity to the Schilke B7 is due to the step bore. The Z horn doesn't feel stuffy to me. The Schilke B1 is easy to play but it seemed to me to be more tiring to play than the Yamaha. The thing that really surprises me is that you can find used Yamaha 6310Z trumpets all day long for around $800 or less. Since I'm a comeback player trying to learn to play again I also like the idea that the Z horn forces one to play efficiently. If you overblow it just doesn't play well. You have to let the horn do the work.
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camelbrass · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:02 am Post subject:

Hi there,

My 2 favourite all rounders (in the price range) are the Conn V1 and Kanstul Chicago. Both something different from the Schilke concept but both good horns.

Regards

Trevor

2LIP · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:31 am Post subject:

I want to add my .02 to the confusion.

I have A/B'd the Shew and VAX models at Melk Music in Milwaukee, WI. I was there to try the new Getzen Genesis and 3051, but that is another story. I also had my Schilke S32 with me, so none of these horns stink!

I play an S32 and I am used to that horn, so I felt more comfortable with the VAX vs. the Shew. If you don't know the story of the S32 and Vax, contact me offline and I will share (per Mike Vax).

The Z horn is comparable to the Schilke B7 and not the B6, but not far away either. ML bell vs. Large throat bell and I think the materials are different too. I would refer you to Marc (DrunkIQ) or the Schilke Loyalist website for further clarification.

The Vax model is a better all around horn IMHO.

The Shew is great if you have trouble breathing like Bobby, don't have the air to support your playing throughout the gig, or are a screaming lead player that needs that "efficiency" and can control your air. I also could make the horn dark and sizzle as you ascend, but dark on this horn is more like the middle of the road. Not "really dark", like the Getzen Genesis was.

Good luck with your horn search. Just as a side note, I tried a couple of Conn V1's, and I was not impressed with the 2 that I played. My understanding is that like Bach, you will have to find the right horn for you. I was told to go to the factory, work with the designer (name escapes me), and find the right horn for you or you may not get a "great one".

Play what you love and love what you play!

The LIP

_gmdean · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:02 am Post subject:

If you get a chance, try out the Stomvi's, they are getting a good reputation here in England. If my Maths is right they should be in your price range. The Forte is a much better horn than it's (UK) price would suggest and you could get a lot of lessons, go to gigs etc with the money you save

, to me it is very similar to the B7. The Elite is more like a Strad in the way it blows. They are the only one's I've played but hope that helps on your budget.

Mark

_dcstep · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:17 am Post subject:

oneeyedhobbit · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:16 am Post subject:

I'm probably going to annoy a great many posters, and my intention certainly isn't to start a flame war, but where on earth are you people getting this info. that the V1 is "like Bach" or that you "have to go to the manufacturer to find the one thats right for you." I've heard it from a few people who randomly bash it on the Herald, absolutely nowhere else, and this includes the pros who I have talked to about it. I must posit, again not to offend but to find out for real, have some of you who claim it has just terrible QC like Bach ever played the new V1? In my travels I've come across and played 6, and all were top-notch horns. I had two in the same model, I give you they were ever so slightly different (as can be expected from a handmade) but nothing radical, just individual differences. Lets stop trying to give the horn a bad name unless you have a genuine reason to-if the sound wasn't for you or whatever, say that-don't pull this QC stuff out of your butt. I didn 't prefer the Schilke sound, but I've never spouted off on this board about their inconsistent manufacture.

_dcstep · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:26 am Post subject:

jamesfrmphilly · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:29 am Post subject:

i had a King 2070 which i loved sound wise but i did encounter QC problems which forced me to get rid of the horn.
i asked Mr Powell about it and he swears they have cleared up QC with the V1.
i played a V1 and i think it has a very nice sound but being very poor i just can't take the chance on putting out my cash and getting a horn with QC problem
so, yes there have been QC problems at UMI
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2LIP · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:04 pm Post subject:

oneeyedhobbit · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:31 pm Post subject:

Two things I must say-

Firstly, I should make a public apology to 2LIP, I mis-interpreted your post. You said that you'd have to go play through a batch and you'd find some you didn't like, I thought you meant similar to the Bach issue-some are excellen horns indeed, while others are "dogs." I didn't know that you were referring to sound. So again, I'm sorry, I assumed wrong, hopefully there is no permanent harm done.

I do wholeheartedly agree with Dave though, perhaps you misinterpreted me. I also agree that amongst all the V1s I have played, the differences were minimal, if at all. You do perhaps find slight differences (as with most any horn) but they are just that, hardly noticeable at all.

trptsbaker · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:45 pm Post subject:

Check out a Yamaha 6345s, standard weight. T.

_dcstep · Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:37 pm Post subject:

OldKid · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Posts: 135

I went through what you are going through right now. I ended up choosing the YAMAHA Zeno 8845S. (large bore) over the Bach 180 Strad ML. This was the only choice I really had. I very happy with my Zeno. I did get a chance to play the Zeno 8835 ML and I prefered the Large bore 8845. Good Luck