I dare to review a Chinese horn: the Berkeley C/Bb trumpet

[thecoast]

The Berkeley C/Bb Trumpet
Berkeley Wind Instruments (an eBay store) sells a C/Bb trumpet in both gold lacquer and silver (color) finish. I bought the gold lacquer model 8 months ago and have some mostly good news. I'm evaluating mainly the C configuration. The horn was designed as a C because, according to Julius (the musician behind Berkeley instruments), you must pull out all the valve slides a little when you swap in the Bb tuning slide.

I will begin by comparing the Berkeley C/Bb to the Kanstul Signature Series ZKT 1510A Professional Trumpet in C (silver plating). I sold my Kanstul C to a happy customer before buying the Berkeley. The price on the Kanstul C when I bought it in 2003 was $1,545.00. The Berkeley C/Bb wound up costing me $153.00, or about ten times less.

Positives
The Berkeley C in gold lacquer was a beautiful, clean, new instrument. It seems to have been made well overall. It has a thumb saddle for the first slide and an adjustable ring for the third slide. Valve action is excellent: it is faster than on the Kanstul. The first and third valve slides move smoothly. The case provides enough room for two mouthpieces, valve oil, a cloth, and the Bb tuning slide. I was able to insert a K&M 5-leg trumpet stand in the bell and the fit was snug but good because the bell cavity in the case is plush over cushion whereas the rest of the inside of the case is plush over hard foam plastic. The light, sturdy, textured ABS case is a hunter green with black trim. It has a handle and two latches.

The Berkeley C/Bb comes with a generic mouthpiece, perhaps a copy of a Bach 11C, but no markings of any sort are on it. Mine came with a dent at the end of the shank (easily repairable). Lastly, the third valve slide has a screw-in nub to keep it from falling out when oiling the third valve. It did not come with a cloth or oil.

I am able to produce good, slightly bright tone (mouthpiece cup-depth dependent, of course) and the horn is mostly in tune with itself, certainly doing that at least as well as the Kanstul C. The Berkeley is much easier to keep in tune than the Kanstul. The third valve slide moves easily enough to adjust C# and D, which as you all know, are slightly sharp on Bb trumpets but more so on C trumpets. The Berkeley did at least as well as the Kanstul in slotting. Middle E is slightly flat in the open position, but it is right on with valves 1 and 2 down. The latter may depend on main slide pull out length and/or cup depth, but I'm just theorizing

Neutral
I have to place this as a neutral because the beauty of sound is in the ear of the hearer. For me, the horn is a little too bright---almost on the tinny (tin-like) side. For others, it might be perfect. Bear in mind also that mouthpiece cup depth and rim diameter influence the color of the sound. (I was using a shallower Parduba double cup). When I use a larger, deeper cup the sound is warmer.

Remember I said the piston action is fast. But don't leave the trumpet in the case for more than a week without lubricating it if you are using regular trumpet valve oil. But I bought some H2 Oil from the Brass Spa (Bob Reeves), and it definitely made a big difference in how often you have to lubricate it. You will need to wash out the oil that is already in/on it (valve casing and pistons), then it will take after the second application. (H2 Oil is expensive to ship but it is good stuff, delivering on its chemical promise).

Negatives
The first thing I noticed was that the C tuning slide is a little difficult to pull out. Greasing improved it substantially, and adding tuning slide treatment gave it the finishing touch. However, it sounded grainy when I was trying to spread the slide grease. That sound mostly subsided when the slide grease was spread out over the tube surface evenly, but I also had to rub some Brasso on the ends to get better, smoother movement. Tuning slide movement is now satisfactory. The main tuning slide's water key pad popped out without much encouragement. I popped it back in and it has not given me any more trouble since.

The next thing is that the third valve slide has no water key. The valve slide comes out easily enough, but don't forget to tighten the screw nub.

The design of the third valve adjustable slide ring is almost a tight fit. Now, I don't have big hands so I found that surprising. The rod for the adjustable slide ring is not standard, so I couldn't just swap in another one. The first valve saddle design is too far from the first valve casing. However, there is a plus in a minus here. The Berkeley's first valve saddle is not hardened. On a warm day in the heat, it will be somewhat pliable. It turned out to be the solution to the wide saddle. I was able to bend the saddle toward the first valve casing.

The tuning slide water key looks like it could easily lose the spring because the part of the spring that presses against the tuning slide moved slightly off to the side though it is amenable to adjustment. If it falls off, the good thing is you can use the spring from the Bb tuning slide to replace it. Same goes for the cork. The seller says he has parts, so that is good.

Shipping positives and negatives
Shipping cost is very expensive: about 60 bucks!

Recommendation with caveats
Given that the Berkeley horn does at least as well as a Kanstul, the Berkeley C/Bb is a good deal when it comes to C trumpets. I recommend the Berkeley C/Bb trumpet (in its default C configuration) heartily! Though I would rather see a third valve slide water key on it, it is a decent instrument and, as anybody who's done shopping for C trumpets knows, it is a bargain price. But a bargain is only a bargain if the inexpensive instrument is comparable to the more expensive one in important ways. The Berkeley C/Bb (at least in its default configuration) is that kind of bargain.

Post-script
I tried the C/Bb in the Bb configuration when I was away on a trip. With some patience, I was able to pull out the slides enough to make it useful for keeping my chops in shape. It's not bad in Bb, but I would not use it for performance because it does not have satisfactory, stable slotting for me. That may be a matter of getting used to it, but I have only performed on it in C. It seems like too much work to adjust in Bb.

---Luis
_________________
—Bach Omega
—Yamaha 631G flugelhorn w/ Warburton 1FLX
—John Packer JP272 tenor horn w/Denis Wick 3
—Yamaha YTS-354 trombone
—King 627 “baritonium”
—Akai EWI 5000

[razeontherock]

Do you get water in your third valve slide? I know it seems like a dumb question, but I have spurting saliva glands so amados are mandatory equipment for me. Then I got a horn where the spit valve was removed from the 3rd slide, and I never got a drop out of it!? (But it plays more evenly across various valve combinations)

Then I started checking my other horns, and it's pretty rare that I need a spit valve on my 3rd slide. I think maybe that missing spit valve is an improvement ...
_________________
"And this is life: that you know the Son, and the One who sent Him." The rest is just details

[richardwy]

Luis, thanks for the review! Not interested in owning one, but very interested in 1st hand accounts that go beyond "Oh Wow" (I'm guilty of that), and "It Sucks."

Well done.
_________________
1972 Selmer Radial

[thecoast]

raze, you brought up an interesting issue. In fact, my Benge 90B does not have a third valve slide water key either. And I noticed that it hardly accumulates water. It is possible for me to blow hard enough to to get the water moving out either through the bell or the tuning slide if any water does accumulate. Shaking helps. I am trying this technique with the Berkeley, but I think you're right, it probably depends on the horn's construction.
_________________
—Bach Omega
—Yamaha 631G flugelhorn w/ Warburton 1FLX
—John Packer JP272 tenor horn w/Denis Wick 3
—Yamaha YTS-354 trombone
—King 627 “baritonium”
—Akai EWI 5000

[thecoast]

Richard,
This is precisely why I posted it. I have read some posts that are just hearsay. "Oh, Wow" reviews are fine so long as there's a reasonably detailed "and here's why" to substantiate them, even if they are, as most things, subjective to some degree. Same goes for the "It sucks" reviews.

Glad to be of even minimal service.

---Luis
_________________
—Bach Omega
—Yamaha 631G flugelhorn w/ Warburton 1FLX
—John Packer JP272 tenor horn w/Denis Wick 3
—Yamaha YTS-354 trombone
—King 627 “baritonium”
—Akai EWI 5000

[tomba51]

Hi Luis,

Thanks for the review. I've been looking for an inexpensive Eb trumpet, and I've seen the Berkeley in an Eb/D configuration on e-bay. Has anyone tried the Eb/D trumpet? Thanks.

Tom
_________________
Tom Barreca

[Mlockman]

I too am interested if anyone has tried the Berkley Eb/D
_________________
Bach Strad 37/25
Bach Strad LT 43 /25
Bach Strad C 229 25H CL,
Couesnon Flugelhorn 1970
Warburton WCC mouthpiece
Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia
AFM

[oxleyk]

What I've always wondered about these, is it made as a C trumpet with a Bb slide or is it made as a Bb with a C slide? The first choice would be preferable since you can pull out the valve slides for playing in Bb.

I have a Berkeley cornet with a rose brass bell, $105 on eBay. While it does have a few minor issues that can be annoying, it is a decent cornet. I reset the receiver myself because it had too much of a gap. I'm not saying a pro would use it, but it suits my needs. A deep funnel mouthpiece gives it a nice mellow tone, but it will light up with a C cup.

If I had it to do over I wouldn't buy one of these. I'd save my money and buy one I could try out first.

Kent

[YSUtrumpet]

I used to have a Berkeley silver Bb trumpet and the finish was not well done. It started to come off after a few months. Prob isn't a problem with gold... but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[regularsopguy]

I too like the Berkeley trumpets. the quality if decent and the price is right.

have seen the same problem with the silver plate. not sure if it's worthwhile to have it professionally plated, and not sure whether the horn will last a decade or more as i expect a quality trumpet to last.

keep that guys phone number because you might want your old horn back.
_________________
"Come with uncle and hear all proper. Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones...you are invited."

[Albert Parrott]

I too bought the Berkeley rose brass bell cornet via ebay, and was very impressed with the construction for the most part, for the price at least. It was a pretty horn to me, but the tone was "airy".

I have a decent tone on several other horns and get comments on it. Changing mouthpieces did not help the Berkeley. I removed the valves and on inspection, found that the inside of the casing had a deep pit, about 6 mm long by 2-3 mm wide, in the first valve position.

I returned it, and although most of my purchase price was refunded, the seller refused to admit that there was anything wrong with the horn.

[lmf]

Hi,

Could we have another review in six months to hear if the horn has held up and you are happy with it?

Thanks and best wishes,

Lloyd

[Brian Moon]

4th space is is so flat it has to be 1-2. That is not acceptable and also infers Eb-D-C# also as trouble. It also infers extrememly sharp G above the staff and flat middle G with sharp tuning note C.


C-R-A-P!!!

Have you seen the "trumpet professor" clips playing a Berkley?

The horn is so bad that the guy doesn't have a chance. Not that he is any good anyway.
_________________
Either is fine. My chops always feel great

ObamaCare, a massive government takeover, a measure destroying jobs and the economy, a law designed to enslave the American people, an instrument of tyranny in the hands of criminal elitists.

[thecoast]

[thecoast]

[thecoast]

[thecoast]

[The horn reviewed 8 months ago was a D horn with an additional Eb tuning slide to change the pitch. I just now checked eBay's website and searched for the D/Eb and found a totally remade horn! This one I have not tried out, and since I don't need a D/Eb, I'll leave it to someone else to try it. The newer D/Eb has a whole separate set of slides for the the Eb configuration. Might be worth trying out. Can't beat the price. I am including this review for historical purposes, so the tense remains present at the time. I would like to see if anybody is brave enough to try out the newer horn. Hey, you never know: their technology is improving!]

The Berkeley Stradivarius D/Eb Trumpet
The Berkeley Stradivarius is Chinese made. This horn is available via auction on eBay, but it is also available via Yahoo store. On the bell, you can spot some barely legible words above Berkeley. I had to use two magnifying glasses to make out what it says: Music1688.com. You put that in your browser and it takes you to a Yahoo store with a different web URL (that is, it does NOT say http://www.Music1688.com).

The Positives
The Berkeley Stradivarius D/Eb trumpet is a beautiful looking instrument. The attractive case is aluminum (even though they describe it as HQ Steel; presumably, HQ stands for high quality) and the case is well constructed. I mean, if the case were actually steel, it would probably weigh a ton!

The trumpet comes with two generic mouthpieces in 7C and 5C. The 5C has an almost Megatone build and darkens the sound favorably. The valve action is very light and fast, and the first and third valve slides moves freely. The first and third valve slides have fixed rings for tuning adjustment. The third valve slide also has a screw nub in place to keep it from slipping off. The tuning slides (one for D and one for Eb), once greased, move smoothly. It's a clean, new instrument. I cannot tell whether the silver colored part of the instrument is nickel plated or silver plated. I'm thinking it is nickel plated because of the sound, and the finish isn't as smooth as a silver plated instrument I have. It also comes with a polishing cloth and oil. The seller has a 30-day return policy, and you pay a 15% restocking fee.

The negatives
The Berkeley Stradivarius D/Eb trumpet has some problems. The tuning slides for both D and Eb have a lot of jiggle when you try to replace them or as you are taking them out (toward the meeting of the tubes). This looseness might contribute to the sound, which is tin-like. But the sound is not the worst problem. The Berkeley Stradivarius D/Eb trumpet is not in tune with itself. Alternate fingerings help tuning to some extent. With some more design refinements, Berkeley Wind Instruments will eventually produce a decent horn. However, see the caveat at the end of this guide.

Shipping positives and negatives
On the positive side, shipping was fast: I received the package about five days after ordering.

There is a major problem with the seller's shipping costs. Within the continental US, shipping is a whopping $59.99! I live in the same state as the seller (California) and shipping should be at most $20, unless one purchases insurance. I sent a $1,500.00 horn to somebody in Maryland, via UPS, and it arrived in about 4 days. It cost $20 to ship, but because I insured it for its value, insurance doubled my shipping cost. Even then, that's $20 less than the seller (eBay ID: lucy4466). If you order the horn and realize you want to return it, you'll be down by $60 plus whatever it costs you to return it, plus a 15% restocking fee. Considering I ended up paying $152 for the trumpet, shipping is a hefty 28% of the total cost. Count more if you have to return it, plus the 15% loss if you request a refund. To be fair, it should be noted that on the Music1688.com Yahoo store, the horn sale price is $550.00, and shipping is free. To bid or not to bid.

Recommendation: Thumbs down with a caveat
My recommendation is to not bid for or buy the Berkeley Stradivarius D/Eb trumpet online for any price: the horn is substandard in sound and construction. Unless you live near the store and can go in and try it out with your own mouthpiece, the bargain is not worth the hassle, particularly because of the shipping cost.

Caveat. I communicated with another trumpet player at the time and his assessment was more positive. In his view, a thin sound is to be expected from a higher pitched horn such as the Berkeley Stradivarius, and his observation was that poor tuning for certain notes was simply a given at first. His perspective was that the horn was an excellent deal for the price. He stated that it can take a year to get a higher pitched horn like a piccolo trumpet to get it to sound right.

Maybe someone here might chime in about this caveat section. Has anyone else taken a year to get used to a pic?

Peace.

---Luis
_________________
—Bach Omega
—Yamaha 631G flugelhorn w/ Warburton 1FLX
—John Packer JP272 tenor horn w/Denis Wick 3
—Yamaha YTS-354 trombone
—King 627 “baritonium”
—Akai EWI 5000

[bilboinsa]

Luis:

This is one of the most well-written reviews since Tom Turner's. You really are doing TH members a great service. WTG!
_________________
Doug Walsdorf

Schilke B2;
Kanstul 1525;
1927 Conn 22B
1970 B&H Regent
"In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit...it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort."
http://www.myspace.com/schilkeb2
Member: http://xeml.buglesacrossamerica.org/

[Rich G]

I recall reading this review several months ago. Luis, are you the author?

http://reviews.ebay.com/Professional-C-and-Bb-Trumpet-Berkeley-Wind-Instrument_W0QQugidZ10000000003434752?ssPageName=BUYGD:CAT:-1:SEARCH:4

BTW, my Schilke B4 doesn't have a waterkey on the 3rd valve slide. I don't have to empty it very often. It doesn't accumulate much water - unlike other horns I've owned.

[thecoast]

Thanks, Doug. GTBOS.

---Luis
_________________
—Bach Omega
—Yamaha 631G flugelhorn w/ Warburton 1FLX
—John Packer JP272 tenor horn w/Denis Wick 3
—Yamaha YTS-354 trombone
—King 627 “baritonium”
—Akai EWI 5000