Blessing Super Artist trumpet vs. cornet

[Brassnose]

OK, I’m looking at the two horns in the subject line, both are the Clifford B model with the underslung ring on the third valve slide, both are 1940s models. Both appear to be in great shape with the cornet having lost most of its original lacquer but a little nicer engraving and the trumpet having most of the lacquer left but a somewhat more generic engraving.

Why is the cornet 1000 bucks cheaper?

Being a big Clifford fan, I of course want to have them both but there is also this really nice Selmer Radial out there in a local marketplace (y‘all know that part of the story ).
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[deleted_user_687c31b]

The fact it’s a cornet may have something to do with that. They seem to be less popular than trumpets and hence they’re often cheaper (used).

[Brassnose]

Yeah, I understand that cornets are cheaper, smaller market, less popular, „special“ instrument and so on. I just wonder if it’s worth to spend a grand more just to have the trumpet. Plus taking into account that a long cornet basically sounds like a trumpet.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[deleted_user_687c31b]

Can’t give you insight on that decision I’m afraid as I haven’t played either one. Does either horn fill a particular gap in your collection or is there a good chance they’re gonna compete for specific parts/gigs (either between them or any other horns in your collection)?

[Brassnose]

Well, I am not really a collector, so my collection (?) is what is in the signature plus my 1980 Blessing Scholastic, which is my first horn, plus a yellow pTrumpet, which is my travel horn to practice when I am on business trips or on vacation.

There are very few horns that I would really be interested enough to consider a purchase and for very non-coherent reasons:

A Super Artist, because CB is my first trumpet hero. His way of hard bop playing together with Art Peppers alto playing is where I come from musically (but can’t play it, because it is so darn difficult - I keep practicing Joy Spring over and over and can’t get it right ).

A Selmer Radial because I just think they are so cool with the valves, the engraving and the attitude.

An Edwards X-13 because it may be the best horn I ever played besides my Martin Schmidt rotary.

A really good bass trumpet to replace the current horn because I REALLY like playing the bass trumpet.

There are a few other horns that I have been looking at as a replacement for my Bach, but this will only be relevant once my Bach really collapses and it’s not quite there yet.

So, you see, there is no very logical explanation, just the fact that both the Selmer and the SA cornet and trumpet popped up at essentially the same time.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[Richard III]

[Brassnose]

OK, I have not played (any) cornet in 30 years so there must be a lot of people with more experience (which would be an argument to buy the Super Artist cornet ) but honestly I think the sound differences between trumpet and long cornet are minor.

I mean, who is REALLY able to identify a long cornet in a blindfold test? The kings of the long cornet such as Nat Adderley, Muggsy, or Bix sound rather trumpety to me, Bix less so. The one exception that comes to (my) mind is Bobby Hackett, here I indeed do think that there is a difference. Possibly Warren Vache as well but I have never heard those guys live.

Things may be different with shepherds crook cornets which I admittedly have never played. Ain’t that embrassasing?
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[delano]

The real problem is that it will be you who will hear the difference even if the sound differences between trumpet and long cornet are minor and that will not necessarily be a happy experience, the more that you seem not to be a cornet lover.

[Brassnose]

I think you are mistaken. The region and time I grew up was essentially a “cornet is for beginners and nothing else” situation. As there are not and have never been any brass bands (or shall we say, cornet-leaning musical entities) in any of the places I lived and worked (number of cities in Switzerland, Germany, France, US) there simply has never been an opportunity or need to have a cornet.

I think cornets are cool but I also think I don’t want to have anything that will collect dust. So really just having a cornet without using it bugs me too much. Our house is full of stuff already …
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[delano]

So why am I mistaken?

[HERMOKIWI]

The trumpet is more expensive than the cornet for two primary reasons:

1. Trumpets are more desired and therefore bring a higher price.
2. The Blessing Super Artist trumpet is an historical model, especially the version with the underslung third valve slide ring, because Clifford Brown played that model.
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HERMOKIWI

[Brassnose]

@Delano: in that you jump to the premature conclusion that I would not appreciate a cornet.

@Hermowiki: I understand CB was a trumpeter. But would that warrant 1000 USD more in price over the cornet? Maybe an additional aspect is that here in Europe we don’t get to see Blessing Artists and Super Artists very often. They seem to be rather rare birds over here.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[deleted_user_687c31b]

[Brassnose]

@ hibidogrulez, you got it. As cool as all these horns are, I’d very much dislike not playing them. If I had the money I’d buy all of them, two Blessings and three Selmers that are within my personal reach right now, and just keep the single one I really like, I guess. We’ll see.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[delano]

[JonathanM]

I remember talking to a retired pro player about the difference between cornets and trumpets. I’ve never forgotten his thoughts…
‘Everything I can do on the cornet, I can do on the trumpet. But I can’t do everything on the cornet that I can do on the trumpet.’

For me, the cornet requires more finesse. I keep thinking, ‘If I can back off the air movement just a bit more, I’ll have my trumpet range on the cornet…’ But I can’t quite make it happen.

One thing is certain; vintage cornets are more often bargains than vintage trumpets, and the above responses by other contributors detail why.

Great thread, Brassnose. Maybe buy both?
_________________
Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super

[HERMOKIWI]

[delano]

[HERMOKIWI]

[Brassnose]

@ Hermowiki, indeed, they want 1700 bucks for the trumpet - partly it may be the fact that they very rarely show up in Europe. I still find it overpriced …
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier