First note problem (help!!)

NetTrumpeterBRA · Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:18 pm Post subject:

Hi Everybody ! Here's my first post !!
I'm a senior college student and since November I'm having a terrible trouble in my playing... I don't know what happens !! When I'm going to play the first note of a music, my tongue stops between my teeth and my sound don't comes out !! It's just happens when I'm going to play a first note of a music !!
Please, help me !!! Sorry about my english !!!

Otavio
São Paulo - Brazil / Souht America

tpetplyr · Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:55 pm Post subject:

It might be more than this, but its quite possible that your just not set up right for the note. Oftentimes this can be corrected just by "hearing" the note and playing it. You have to remember that trumpet playing is as much a function of the ear as of the lip. (a lesson im still learning.) Just listen to what the note is and try to make that sound come out. It comes natrually after awhile.

Stuart

jhatpro · Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 1:01 pm Post subject:

You also might be holding your breath for a moment just before you play. Sometimes this is called "bottling up" your breath and it can interfere with your attack and, sometimes, prevent it altogether. Try to time your breathing so you're taking a breath just before you start to tongue the note.

Good luck!

Jim
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Ohanapecosh · Heavyweight Member Joined: 17 Dec 2002 Posts: 2133

Bom dia! Muito prazer.

Welcome to TH.

George

JazzCatDRP · Regular Member Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 89

There was actually a post about this a little while ago, about a trumpet "stutter". I wonder if it's similar to this, as I've experienced similar problems. What I do to help overcome it is to visualize the entrance (sounds stupid, but it works) before I play it (as in the first bar). Then to help get a smooth start, take a deep breath and start exhaling some before you actually begin to play.

_bugleboy · Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 8:51 pm Post subject:

First note problems are more than likely all timing related. The tongue, and other muscles, doesn't know where to begin. Once your playing, a timing has been established and attacks follow in the time established by what is being played. But, if the time hasn't been established before a player begins, the result will often be a stuttering attack or a frozen attack, one that can't get started.

If timing is not addressed as a main portion of the "cure" for faulty first attacks, a player may never develop a sure footed and anxiety free first note technique.

SteveS · Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:36 pm Post subject:

Oh have I been where you are..

This is an old school way that worked for me. The idea of the exercise is to get you to think about the note (sound whatever) and not about the mechanics of what you are doing. I don't do this a lot but it has gotten me past some bad habits & stress.

Sit, with good posture your horn down (away from your face)
Pick a note (mid range, easy volume)

bring your horn up, AS SOON as the mouthpiece touches your lips, play.

No setup, no pause, no making certain everything is perfect.
Just play the note.

Yes, there is more theory behind this but those are the steps.

Other than that lots of really soft playing, clark , arban, scales, etc.
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musicmonkey · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Jan 2002 Posts: 344

I think there is a lot of merit in the first comment about hearing the pitch before you play it. Try sitting next to a piano when you play and hit the note you want to paly before you play it. Then, when you actually hear the note, imaigne yourself playing it on the trumpet, and finally, play it!

Then again, this may be more of a technical problem, but try hearing the pitch and seeing yourself play it to try to overcome any mental barriers.

mm

Pops · Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 3:25 pm Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: Pops on 2003-05-13 13:44 ]

_bugleboy · Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 3:54 pm Post subject:

Pops,

Here are a few you could take a look at. Especially check the posts by PH.

http://trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=7199&forum=20

http://trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=5742&forum=20

http://trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=4010&forum=20

This topic is one that is continually recurring in the CC forum.
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[ This Message was edited by: bugleboy on 2003-02-22 18:55 ]

_Don Herman · Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 9:33 pm Post subject:

With regard to starting "in time", try thinking of the first meaure or phrase starting before you start, then "join in" with your mental sound. This allows you to set yourself up to play. If this works, gradually reduce the "preplay" until you're starting right off.

HTH - Don
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Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1888

Otavio,

Get one of those tubes with a ping pong ball inside. You can practice attacks on this tube, making sure the pingo pong ball doesn't fall between taking in the breath, and "attacking" the note. Go from practicing attacks on tube, to practicing attacks on the trumpet. Make sure that you "hear" a specific note when practicing on the tube, and then go to the trumpet, playing the same note. Pretend that the trumpet is the same as the tube. And don't let that ball fall!

wiseone2 · Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 5:39 am Post subject:

You can cure your problem with the use of a metronome.
Timed breathing has worked for me.
Set your metronome at 60. Middle G is a good note to start on.
One,two,three,four, breath,Play.
Hold the G for Four counts,then repeat resting four counts between attacks.
Don't take big breaths. Play all registers using this method.
Ultimately, try to play quieter than the click of the metronome.
I am talking about open horn!.
Wilmer

1B · Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 7:33 am Post subject:

Try using a breath attack. This will allow you to free up your air and start the sound without suspending the air, which of course leads to tightness, closed throat, etc. After getting used to the breath attack, add the tongue back in. This has worked well for me when I have experienced the same problem. You may also want to check your horn angle. I have found that this problem sometimes occurs if my angle is different from my normal placement. Good luck. Stay positive. You will work this out.
1B

airdyn · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 579

Hi...To be sure, some things do not work for everyone (let me preface the following with this thought).
Since the topic is FUNDAMENTALS, and the posed question(problem) concerns tonguing, the following is a solution that will work for the majority of players (not all, I remind you!).
The premise...there are only two things necessary for a sound to be produced on a brass instrument...1. Air and 2. Vibrating lips....
Air is of course under the heading of Breathing and Vibrating lips (controlled) is under the heading of Embouchure.
The Tongue is something to be addressed as a "refining" factor and not as a basic playing factor.
So, for the player's problem of starting a note, I offer the following solution.
LEARN TO PLAY (BLOW) without the tongue at first....using a HOOO no tongue Attack on a middle "Bb concert" ... and sustain several whole notes. Move on to half notes, breathing in between each note and then do quarter notes at a Lento tempo, breathing between each note and attacking each note with a HOOO no tongue attack.

Once these notes begin to respond easily, consider the tongue making contact or striking BEHIND the upper teeth with the syllable DOOO soft tongue or TOOO pointed tongue and take whole notes, half notes and quarter notes as above, being BACKSTROKE conscious with each attack. It is the BACKSTROKE of the tongue that emits the sound (releases the air) and not the striking of the tongue itself.
And one more thing, NEVER, yes NEVER permit the tongue to penetrate between the teeth or teeth and lips at any time.
Remember, the lips and breath are the two primary playing factors, and the tongue is only a refining factor. When lips respond easily to air, then the tongue can be the "deliverer" of a clean musical attack.
For more on this, please check the Donald S. Reinhardt Forum.

mafields627 · Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:01 am Post subject:

NetTrumpeterBRA · Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 3:17 am Post subject:

hi guys
You're great !!!

Thanks for your advice and nice words !!! I'll be "cured" soon !!

Otavio

Pops · Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 10:48 am Post subject:

Thanks Charley;
I knew you had these filed somewhere.

Take care.

redface · Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:03 pm Post subject:

try articulating without the tongue - just a Haaaa attack. try it for a minute or so then add the tongue. production problems are often due to mistimed (late) delivery of the air.

EBjazz · Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:11 pm Post subject:

I find practicing with breath attacks helps this problem and eliminates the "extra movement".
Try some of the exercises on the first ten pages of Schlossburg for this.

Eb
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