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trumpetkid11
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Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 88
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 Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| when i play high notes, normally i can get up to a D or an E (3 lines above staff) and then after that, the notes that i can hit or play get kind of hazy or unclean or unclear. they are kind of airy.... i guess thats a good way to describe it. well anyway, if you know what im talking about, can you tell me what im doing wrong or if this is just a normal thing that will go away in time? also, if there is anything, what can i do to fix it? thanks in advance for ur imput. |
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Maranatha-girl
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Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Air, Air,Air, and more air!
[ This Message was edited by: Maranatha-girl on 2003-02-23 15:56 ] |
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trumpetkid11
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Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| what things can i do to use more air? |
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Batmann
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Joined: 29 Dec 2002
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 4:51 am Post subject: |
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More air....... Gee, I don't know what you could do to use more air. While air is a component of sound production one must not overlook the other component. Without the other component no extra amount of air will help. The other component is Focus. Focus the facial muscles to efficiently use the air. The upper register always seems to augment weaknesses in embouchure. At this point you can choose your path, you can find plenty of information on whichever you decide. I wish you sucess in the future.
/o/
^^ |
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TimBrown
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Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 742
Location: Galesburg Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Go check out some of the books at this link:
http://www.claudegordonmusic.com/
Check out "Brass playing is as easy as Breathing".
I'm working on my upper range too and air is something I'm working on, so don't get discouraged!
TIm
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MF Fan
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Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 397
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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When notes become hazy, or stuffy as you move from register to register, it may be a sign that your tongue arch isn't right for the note you're trying to play. I recently had an "aha" experience that helped me gain a greater vibrancy in sound throughout the middle register, and has made the upper register easier to play. As a side-benefit of learning the Clarke/Gordon K-tonguing-modified technique, I came to realize that keeping the tip of my tongue at the base of my bottom teeth AT ALL TIMES caused me to form more of a forward tongue arch in all registers. Prior to then, I was just letting my tongue 'float' whereever it wanted, which obstructed the airstream to some degree, causing a stuffy sound on occasion. The forward-arch seems to compress the air more, allowing me to play with less effort in all registers, and really opens things up.
Just a thought.
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[ This Message was edited by: MF Fan on 2003-02-27 16:41 ]
[ This Message was edited by: MF Fan on 2003-02-27 16:41 ] |
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TimBrown
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Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 742
Location: Galesburg Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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MFFan:
Thanks for the tip; I think I've been "floating" alot too! I'll give it a shot...
Tim
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TimBrown
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Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 742
Location: Galesburg Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Trumpetkid!
Just got this from Jeff Perkins. He's a great trumpet player. Great range. His web site is http://www.exalt.org.
Anyway, he lives not far from here and I was emailing him about his style and range, etc. Here's his reply:
Hope all is well. A couple notes if you will..what a pun. The .464 bore
should help you if you feel you are being restricted by your horn...too much
back-pressure. Remember, you still need back-pressure to properly center
notes and also for range/endurance. I use an XL Leadpipe with a large bore
horn because of the feeling I'm goinig to explode when playing....maybe you
have felt the same.
The last note on "Make His Praise" is an E (sorry I just realized you asked
for "Great is the Lord" that is a D in the key of B-flat)...E is usually a
harder note to play than an F or G because of the wave pattern within the
tubing. Our new release will have some notes in the F-G range in-which I can
tell you that to maitain range, you need to also be able to play your low
tones openly and powerfully...why is this? First off, when most people play
in the upper register, they choke their notes by stiffening the throat-not
staying relaxed and/or stressing the lips to such a degree that they lock-up
due to a non-opening. When you play low you can feel the lack of pressure
and an easy buzz...playing high should be no different except the fact that
you are moving air much faster, thus creating a faster wave-length...raising
the tongue in many cases helps speed up the air-flow to the "chops".
I have been playing a custom Marcinkewicz for 20 years and love not only the
sound, but their accuracy when replacing mouthpeices. It looks like you went
to a "lead" m-peice? Remeber, that you do not want to use too small of a MP
because this will cause early fatigue...however you can do some configuring
to help out. I use a fairly deep, yet small rim diamiter to offset the cup
depth...this still allows me to use more of the lip muscle, but at a more
precise area. Phil Driscoll uses a flat cup with a wide rim...still using
more of the lip muscle. You will have to experiment to feel comfortable.
Remember...AIR, not too-much pressure, and stay relaxed throughout.
Anyway, TK, Just wanted to pass this on to you. Filter out what doesn't apply...maybe all of it. He's right about closing the throat down. I hadn't noticed it till he mentioned it...and that is what I do!
Again, I hope this helps...
Tim
_________________
Getzen 900 DLX
Kanstul Meha .470
L.A. Benge 3x+ 9879
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10 out of 10 people die. Do you consider yourself to be a good person? |
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LeeC
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Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 5730
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting responses so far. Many different suggestions. The only one I don't agree with is the arched tongue concept. It is my opinion that the tongue arch only slows down the air by constricting the air column. Some day this approach will probably be universally descredited as it should, but until then it'll keep popping up in trumpet studies and this forum.
I don't think the "hazy" quality of the tone is a negative, it just proves that you do have an upper register albeit in the beginning stages. Think positive. A squeek of today is a note for tomorrow. Sounds like a need for more practice, & experience. Isometrics help too combined with breathing exercises.
If anyone disagrees with me about the fallacy of the tongue arch helping the upper register production you can easily prove it's uselessness in a simple experiment that I can show anyone interested in hearing about it. Questions? Leesbrass@yahoo.com |
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MF Fan
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Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 397
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
On 2003-02-28 23:21, leesbrass wrote:
If anyone disagrees with me about the fallacy of the tongue arch helping the upper register production you can easily prove it's uselessness in a simple experiment that I can show anyone interested in hearing about it.
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I would definitely be interested in hearing about the experiment. Is it something that can be shared here in the forum?
I believe that the tongue arch facilitates upper register production, based on the simple premise that faster air = faster lip vibrations = higher notes. Arching the tongue reduces the space within the oral cavity; assuming you continue to push the same quantity of air and raise your tongue, the air is going pass through a smaller space and exit at a faster velocity through your lip aperature, hence, higher notes. Like the old garden hose analogy: Reduce the space the water is passing through by putting your thumb over the end of the hose, and it goes farther and faster. Back to trumpet, yes, you can also accelerate the air by increasing compression using your exhalation musculature while the air is still in your lungs, but there is a limit to how much velocity can be added this way. How much more water pressure would it take to shoot the water the same distance as it goes when you close off part of the hose with your thumb. Using a combination of both the tongue and increased pressure in the lungs provides the greatest potential and control for airstream compression and control.
I believe many have come to disagree with the role of the tongue in airstream compression for two basic reasons:
1. In their own experience it hasn't worked, though that's a problem with execution, not the technique itself. Common problems in execution are over-arching the tongue for any one note, and/or backing off on the volume of air being pushed. Also, it's common for players to incorrectly arch the back of their tongue, vs. the front. Any of these separately or in combination can result sub-optimal results and give you that choked feeling.
2. Many players believe their tongue is laying flat in the bottom of their mouth at all times, when in reality it is not. The TIP and BACK of the tongue may not be move, and they shouldn't, but the front/center section is, it's just hard to feel since the center/front have no point of reference. The tip and back touch the teeth, providing a reference point from which movement can be sensed, the front/center are moving freely in the open space of your mouth.
Now the qualifiers: This is all from my personal experience. Every player experiences and feels things differently. Who knows, maybe some really don't arch their tongues when ascending.
Finally, I believe the X-Ray experiements in Claude Gordon's "Brass Playing Is No Harder Than Deep Breathing" documented that the professional players studied did in fact arch their tongues when ascending. If you have other fact-based info to the contrary I'm willing to listen.
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MF Fan
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[ This Message was edited by: MF Fan on 2003-03-03 12:48 ] |
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