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MikeyMike
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 1680
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 Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: ***PIRACY!*** |
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| droll7 wrote: |
I'm curious how you "confirmed" that the recordings were piracy. A simple way to verify would be to take a wave file of the original as well as from George's recording and lay the files one under the other in a multi track digital audio recorder.
If you do that you will find that they are different recordings. They will not line up. It would be impossible because the fact of the matter remains they are different recordings.
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Congratulations on your first post and welcome to the forum.
Just how is it you *know* the versions are different recordings??
As a matter of fact, "lining up" the recordings would prove absolutely nothing at all with respect to their provenance. The pitch and/or tempo of the original piece can be modified in many ways during a transfer and those methods could include both electronic and mechanical means. Such changes would not change the origins of the original piece, so "lining them up" might be as big a waste of time as listening to Mr. Staerkel's *music*. |
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scarface
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1806
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| trpt.hick wrote: | It is correct to say "panties in a knot." It's in the Geneva Convention. Look it up!  |
Did you mean the Victoria's Secret convention?  |
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droll7
New Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: ***PIRACY!*** |
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| MikeyMike wrote: | | droll7 wrote: |
I'm curious how you "confirmed" that the recordings were piracy. A simple way to verify would be to take a wave file of the original as well as from George's recording and lay the files one under the other in a multi track digital audio recorder.
If you do that you will find that they are different recordings. They will not line up. It would be impossible because the fact of the matter remains they are different recordings.
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Congratulations on your first post and welcome to the forum.
Just how is it you *know* the versions are different recordings??
As a matter of fact, "lining up" the recordings would prove absolutely nothing at all with respect to their provenance. The pitch and/or tempo of the original piece can be modified in many ways during a transfer and those methods could include both electronic and mechanical means. Such changes would not change the origins of the original piece, so "lining them up" might be as big a waste of time as listening to Mr. Staerkel's *music*. |
Thank you.
I know George. I've been to his home. I've seen his recording setup and I have seen him play live with a live band, not as a solo with tracks (which he has never done), and I have heard the recordings that are being brought up. There is much mis information being posted on this forum regarding George Staerkel.
Sure, but the pitch and tempo can also be manipulated to line the tracks up, except for the fact that George programmed all the tracks and Doc's band played them live. While Ed was an awesome drummer, he was not a metronome. The tempo of Doc's music would breathe more than George's. You would also see the variance in the shape of the wave.
Whether you think Mr. Staerkel's *music* is worthy of listening is irrelevant, this issue is that more than one person is making false claims about his recordings and performances. |
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WildCat
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 1820
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Stomvi wrote: | [quote="WildCat]
I'm curious as to why the constructive comments are needed in the first place. ? |
Yup - the guy claims that the dude's actions bother him so much - but then doesn't do anything about it directly and then comes in here and cries about it.[/quote]
I know this is 4 pages back and all, but that's not what I meant. What I was implying is that our comments are irrelevant, other than in the case of starting a flame war, which seems to be in full effect. That in mind, this thread stopped being civil long ago.
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trpt.hick
Rafael Méndez Forum Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 2632
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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droll7 (George?):
You will never convince me that the tracks on GS's trumpet CD are NOT actually off of other recordings by Doc, Maynard, etc. Anyone with a brain can tell that they are pirated. Each arrangement, nuance, vibrato, etc. is IDENTICAL!!!
If GS is a good enough player to perform or record these pieces, sounding like an exact clone of these great artists (each of which has their own "signature" sound), the trumpet world would have heard of him long ago. Even if GS is your friend, don't try to BS us. Have you, yourself, compared his CD to the previous ones made by Doc, Maynard, et al.?
I played the GS recording back to back with the original LPs and CDs mentioned for several other pro trumpet players. Their first reaction was  . Shortly later, they burst out laughing because it was so obvious. I think George assumed that no one else owned the recordings by these famous trumpet stars. Did he really think he could pawn his CD off as his own playing. . . on ALL tracks? 75% of the CD is obviously pirated from RCA, ABC, Columbia, Amhurst, and other labels. The other tracks are likely GS, except the "Bugler's Holiday," which sounds like the clip off of Leroy Anderson's website.
I do happen to know quite a bit about copyright laws as applied to recordings. Representing himself as the performer on all of the CD is unethical, and I seriously doubt that any label would authorize or license use of these tracks unless the original artists, labels, and copyright notices were listed for each track. There is NONE of this on his CD artwork. |
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aceswildtru
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Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 655
Location: Bluffton, Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| trpt.hick wrote: | droll7 (George?):
You will never convince me that the tracks on GS's trumpet CD are NOT actually off of other recordings by Doc, Maynard, etc. Anyone with a brain can tell that they are pirated. Each arrangement, nuance, vibrato, etc. is IDENTICAL!!!
If GS is a good enough player to perform or record these pieces, sounding like an exact clone of these great artists (each of which has their own "signature" sound), the trumpet world would have heard of him long ago. Even if GS is your friend, don't try to BS us. Have you, yourself, compared his CD to the previous ones made by Doc, Maynard, et al.?
I played the GS recording back to back with the original LPs and CDs mentioned for several other pro trumpet players. Their first reaction was . Shortly later, they burst out laughing because it was so obvious. I think George assumed that no one else owned the recordings by these famous trumpet stars. Did he really think he could pawn his CD off as his own playing. . . on ALL tracks? 75% of the CD is obviously pirated from RCA, ABC, Columbia, Amhurst, and other labels. The other tracks are likely GS, except the "Bugler's Holiday," which sounds like the clip off of Leroy Anderson's website.
I do happen to know quite a bit about copyright laws as applied to recordings. Representing himself as the performer on all of the CD is unethical, and I seriously doubt that any label would authorize or license use of these tracks unless the original artists, labels, and copyright notices were listed for each track. There is NONE of this on his CD artwork. |
Wow, a firebreathing David Hickman...this thread certainly just took an interesting turn!
-Travis
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scarface
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healey.cj
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 2011
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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...
Last edited by healey.cj on Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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MikeyMike
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: ***PIRACY!*** |
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| droll7 wrote: |
Sure, but the pitch and tempo can also be manipulated to line the tracks up, except for the fact that George programmed all the tracks and Doc's band played them live.
Whether you think Mr. Staerkel's *music* is worthy of listening is irrelevant, this issue is that more than one person is making false claims about his recordings and performances. |
So in your first post you claim they *don't* line up and that would PROVE they're different tracks. Now you claim they *could* line up but that wouldn't necessarily prove ANYTHING. Dude, if this goes to trial you'd better hope the jury is as packed with saps as George's audiences. |
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MikeyMike
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 1680
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| scarface wrote: | | I can't imagine why these pages have suddenly gone missing from the internet main... |
Just a coincidence, scarface. Just a coincidence.
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equally well tempered
Regular Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm curious how you "confirmed" that the recordings were piracy. |
I am not musically ignorant and I happen to have more than one brain cell. I have "confirmed" exactly what Mr. Hickman pointed out.
| Quote: | | Each arrangement, nuance, vibrato, etc. is IDENTICAL!!! |
The tracks that I have "confirmed" were confirmed in such a manner that I am confident the most skeptical person couldn't argue against it. Each nuance, vibrato, waiver in tone, articulation (not only in the solo line, but the band as well) are IDENTICAL. I placed George's recording in one channel and the original artist's recording in the other....lined up the tracks and by golly they were identical...with exception to 'cuts'. For instance, in the 'Theme From Star Trek' on Maynard's "Best Of" and "Conquistador" albums, George cut about 50 seconds of that lengthy multiphonic flute solo...you can hear the cuts.
| Quote: | | Whether you think Mr. Staerkel's *music* is worthy of listening is irrelevant, this issue is that more than one person is making false claims about his recordings and performances. |
I guarantee you I have made no false claims. I am not ignorant about his live performances, I do know he can play and perform. However, this topic has to do with pirating recordings so I will not address the live performances at this time.
| Quote: | | Sure, but the pitch and tempo can also be manipulated to line the tracks up, except for the fact that George programmed all the tracks and Doc's band played them live. While Ed was an awesome drummer, he was not a metronome. The tempo of Doc's music would breathe more than George's. You would also see the variance in the shape of the wave. |
droll7....George programmed ALL the tracks?? For example, on George's "A Trumpet Extravaganza" cd, listen to tracks 4, 7, 14, 17, and 18...those alone are directly from Doc's "Trumpet Spectacular" cd. Line 'em up with no pitch or tempo manipulations...they do line up and the sound waves look alike however, volume may have been manipulated on the reproduction. This is just a small piece of the puzzle...I don't doubt George programmed some tracks on his recordings, tracks that I have not identified. I will only address that which I know.
I will be happy to post a short excerpt of each artist playing their "own" version of a piece if I can figure out how to accomplish that.
I don't expect anyone to assume I am correct, but don't assume I am not. I said someone with unquestionable credibility would be able to confirm my findings and Mr. Hickman has done that. |
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carltrumpet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 530
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I haven't heard the recordings first hand, but this thread is really interesting. From how the recordings are described - that is being identical to previously recorded works - I really don't think anyone in their right mind would do this. Seriously..... It's kind of like another form of pathological lying. Or..... maybe he really believes he's the guy on the recordings. That wouldn't surprise me either. Perhaps he'll be spared by reason of insanity. |
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trpt.hick
Rafael Méndez Forum Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 2632
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| BINGO! |
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spitvalve
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 2160
Location: Little Elm, TX
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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I just watched the Youtube videos of this George Stinkel guy
One word comes to mind:
Yecccch!
_________________
Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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scarface
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1806
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| MikeyMike wrote: | | scarface wrote: | | I can't imagine why these pages have suddenly gone missing from the internet main... |
Just a coincidence, scarface. Just a coincidence.
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Could it be? |
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oj
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1699
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:18 am Post subject: |
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As I told in my previous post, I sent a note to Staerkel.
He sent me a kind reply.
Since I also asked for a sound sample of "Java", he sent that.
I have now compared Staerkels and Hirts "Java" versions:
They are different!
I have uploaded them to my trumpet site here (will remove them soon):
Al Hirt's version:
http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/mp3/Java_Al_Hirt.mp3
George Staerkels version:
http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/mp3/Java_George_Staerkel.mp3
Ole
Last edited by oj on Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Nespy
Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2002
Posts: 108
Location: Greenwood, SC
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:29 am Post subject: |
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Ole,
I don't know if you're being serious or not. However the link is the exact same under both clips you have listed.
Just wanted to let you know, in case the actual files are different. |
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oj
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1699
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:33 am Post subject: |
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Nespy, thanks - I've fixed it!
Since almost all of Staerkels images on the web now are removed, I saved one. It is here:
Ole |
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Nespy
Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2002
Posts: 108
Location: Greenwood, SC
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:46 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Ole...
The majority of this thread has been high comedy, so I really didn't know if you had made an honest mistake or had just posted the funniest one yet. 
Having said all that. Wow...those two are definitely NOT the same. Obviously, in the case of that song, those are two different clips. With that being the first time I have heard George play, I must note my amazement that this guy has a job doing anything musical. Are things THAT bad in Arizona?! If so, I'm ready to pack up my family and move out there! |
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Brian Moore
Veteran Member
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 407
Location: Exeter, UK
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:11 am Post subject: |
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I'm not going to comment at all about the specific allegations in this thread. But given the subject, I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the Joyce Hatto case, in which her husband passed off over a hundred recordings of other famous pianists as being by Hatto. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyce_Hatto
It's a fascinating case, both in the way it developed, and the way it was uncovered. Initially Barrington-Coupe denied the fraud; then when discovered he was unrepentant; eventually he accepted that what he did was completely wrong, and he apologised for the deception. What the case did do was to illustrate the power of the musical community to uncover the truth about a fraud. |
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