VINCENT BACH STRIKE

connedbyselmer · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: VINCENT BACH STRIKE

The Vincent Bach strike is still going but I am starting to get the feeling Steinway CEO Dana Messina doesn't want me back anymore. Can anyone believe that? The strike has just passed the 2 year mark now and us workers are still waiting for NLRB decertification vote ruling.
Our fellow UAW members at American axel in Michigan & New York are undergoing the same tactics that were used against us by their CEO Richard Dauch demanding a 50% reduction in pay along with pension elimination and other various issues. All this under the threat of moving all production out of the country ,plus being forced by the union to accept unreasonable contract terms.
Unlike the city of Elkhart In, the city of three rivers michigan supports their workers. As as matter of fact workers come down from three rivers to show their support to the Bach workers and were told by police they were not allowed to picket .as the company had a injunction against us workers.
These corporate parasites continue to squeeze the middle working class with the cost of living going out of control ,while their wages increase and their golden parachutes expand in case their incompetent management is exposed.

broro2 · New Member Joined: 07 Dec 2008 Posts: 5

What is the current status of the Bach Co.? Are strads currently still made in Elkhart?

Bob

connedbyselmer · Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:01 pm Post subject:

Well the status is the Strads are still being made in Elkhart. The 3 year old strike is still going on with about 1/2 of the workers on the inside and 1/2 in the street. The workers in general hate the working conditions with threats and disrespect they recieve. Some workers are now physically stealing instruments from the plants. Stock is down in the $11 range from $30 when the strike first started. A 4 day work week is in effect with more management and rank& file workers to be layed off. In these tough economical times it seem to be taking their toll on Steinway Musical and with the government soon to rule on the underhanded tactics employeed by steinway in the counting of votes in the union decertification process. Steinway will probably be sent back to the barging table in which they will continue to NOT NEGOTIATE IN GOOD FAITH.
The first ever annual special dealers conference to be held at conn selmer corporate office the 17&18 of this month with Steinwan CEO Dana Messina co- hosting is in my opinion an attempt to salvage a sinking conn-selmer ship.

lmf · Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject:

connedbyselmer,

Have you heard why E.K. Blessing is no longer making Bach instruments for Conn Selmer?

Best wishes,

Lloyd

connedbyselmer · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:44 pm Post subject:

I really haven't Lloyd but I would guess since conn-selmers orders are so low they can fill them themselves without paying Blessings to make their horns for them. The Bach division is down to a 4 day work week with some layoffs and more expected taking the workforce down to 80 people range. A long way from the over 400 employees a few years ago. Steinway musical is not only feeling this economic mess in their instruments division they are even feeling it worse in their piano division.

lmf · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject:

connedbyselmer,

Doesn't surprise me piano sales are down. There have been so many foreclosures and jobs being lost by so many people everywhere today.
People have to have a job to make sufficient money to purchase a piano and often a house to put one in.

Looks like Messina can't only blame the folks that make brass horns, but he isn't moving pianos either. Many people can't afford piano lessons let along the cost of a piano.

Most consumer for fear of losing their jobs are "being more frugal" right now. The ones who have lost jobs are trying to stay alive and pay only the basics...food, clothing, shelter. Musical instruments are a luxury at the present time unless one is a professional earning income from playing instruments.

Thanks for the information about Conn-Selmer-Bach and Blessing.

Best wishes,

Lloyd

connedbyselmer · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject:

Dana Messina Management Decisions Top
Some of Steinway CEO Dana Messina management decisions are starting to be brought to light. The appointment of John Stoner as CEO of the Conn Selmer division should be analyzed as follows. Mr Stoner who's career was in the manufacturing of hardware, (rakes, shovels,weelbarrels, etc ) could not be farther from the manufacture of fine, precision, musical instruments. Understanding of this process is vital for success, as it is unlike any other common manufactuting process. Mr Stoners lack of understanding of this process has resulted in many bad judgments. You cannot manufacture musical instruments like hardware. Mr Stoner and Dana Messina are still attempting to learn this lesson. However if Mr Stoner was brought in to institute change, to change the process to more closely resemble the manufacture of hardware , he has been successful and if there is fault to blame in this decision it lays with CEO Messina not Stoner. The other decision was the way to implement this change was to rid the workforce of skilled workers and dumb down the process to make it similar to the manufacture of hardware. If this was the goal then the process has been fairly successful. The other management decision of ridding the workforce of skilled workers while dummying down the process could have been better handled in a moral,ethical manor and perhaps saved many millions of dollars and eliminated hate on both sides. .

lmf · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:22 pm Post subject:

conneb-by-selmer,

Does /Messina - Steinway make pianos like hardware you mentioned?
If they do, no wonder they aren't selling pianos.

If they aren't making pianos like hardware, what makes them think that
quality brass musical instruments shouldn't be made with quality craftsmanship by a suitable number of competent employees?

If they decimate their employee base, how does the company expect to keep its customer base if quality goes down. I've noticed the prices are still high no matter the quality - good, mediocre or bad.

Best wishes,

Lloyd

connedbyselmer · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:00 am Post subject:

No Lloyd I wasn't refiring to pianos in this case, I mistakenly put it in the wrong posting sorry.
I was refiring to the instrument division of Steinway, Conn Selmer, who was adopting the mass way of production like president John Stoners True Temper) (hardward) business. Steinway piano ( New York) is still manufacturing the old fasion way. They also have their 2 cheap models Boston & Essex which are manufactured in China.

lmf · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:11 pm Post subject:

connedbyselmer,

Thanks for the clarification. Conn-Selmer wants brass instruments in the USA to be made in a similar way the cheaper brands of Steinway (Boston & Essex)are made in China, I wouldn't think this is an "apples to apple" comparison of workers.

Have major quality control issues been noted in the cheaper "Made in China" pianos - Boston and Essex?

Best wishes,

Lloyd

connedbyselmer · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:13 pm Post subject:

Bosston & Essex are not in the same league as a Steinway. They are more affordable models for the average person. From what I have heard they are good products.

Don Herman rev2 · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:32 pm Post subject:

My wife has a Boston. It is a Steinway design built in Japan (not China; I used to know the contractor but have forgotten). It is a very nice player, touch and sound comparable to the Steinway's we tried, and due to the broad-tailed design actually has a deeper, fuller sound than a Steinway of the same size (length). I do not know enough to say if it is better or worse than a Steinway in general, and our sample size is too small to say. What I can say is that I let my wife choose, and she liked the Boston better than the Steinway. I went in expecting to get a Steinway, but the Boston sounded better and she liked the sound and touch better than the Steinways we tried. This was for a 5'10" length'ish. It's been a few years, but my memory is that at the larger sizes the Steinway won.

All of which is to say Boston is a durn fine piano.

It says NOTHING about the integrity of the company, or it's managers... I find it hard to believe Bach is being beaten down so badly, and that other parts of the company aren't suffering similarly? Anyone know? I think I'd be nervous no matter what division I worked at given the way Bach employees are being treated.

FWIWFM - Don

p.s. Again, it has been some time (about ten years now), but price-wise I think the Boston was about $18k and the comparable Steinway was around $22k. A 6'2" Steinway was a little too big for our room and, at $30k+, our budget. The good news is that the grand piano bought me a lot of trumpet chits...

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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

lmf · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:15 pm Post subject:

Don,

You said:

"It says NOTHING about the integrity of the company, or it's managers... I find it hard to believe Bach is being beaten down so badly, and that other parts of the company aren't suffering similarly? Anyone know? I think I'd be nervous no matter what division I worked at given the way Bach employees are being treated."

You have to wonder why?

It could be that as Steinway is the owner of Conn-Selmer, it appears to be trying to hold a particular standard to its "flagship" business of piano-making and cutting too many corners of its brass instrument division (especially Bach) to bolster its bottom line. What other reason could there be?

Best wishes,

Lloyd

Don Herman rev2 · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:29 am Post subject:

Yes, I do wonder...Why would they gut a "standard" in brass instruments, but leave their "core" pianos alone? Why buy Bach if not to raise, or at least maintain, that standard? Did they think Bach had dropped in quality and thought they could bring it back? Or, as you say, did they just want to diversify and decided to eke as much profit as (in)humanly possible out of the "other" businesses? Either way, I wonder about the Steinway workers -- are they also being pushed similarly and their union wasn't as strong, or what?

The whole situation seems a little odd to me...
_________________
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

lmf · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:57 am Post subject:

Hi, Don,

You aptly said:

"The whole situation seems a little odd to me..."

Seems that way to me, too! Hard to determine the rhyme and reason for what is happening there?

Bach has long been the standard for trumpets, why do things that could possibly lower the quality or do things to "mess up" the product line? It would only serve to drive customers to another competitor and add to the company's loss. The company certainly isn't explaining its motives to its customer base very well.

Best wishes,

Lloyd

MrClean · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject:

Don Herman rev2 · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:37 pm Post subject:

Makes sense, Jim... Sad, though. Marketing hype can only carry on for so long, however, especially in these days of "instant" communication. We may be looking at the end of an era.

I would rather Steinway treated Bach like their pianos and brought them back to their former glory, but that probably does not match the allure of fattening the bottom line.
_________________
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

connedbyselmer · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject:

Bach has always contended that their profitability lies in their high end (pro)horn not their student line (kids) instruments. Kinda like selling a chevy to a cadillac. That was their theory in going to China for their low cost horns for the Kids.
Bought an instrument a couple years back for our daughter and the school held a special meeting to "HELP YOU SELECT" the right instrument for your child. The only problem was conn selmer had their GOONS in there pushing their instruments under the full support of the band directors. I told them that I would chose my own brand of instrument and they then informed me that if I did I would have to bring it in and have it approved. I not only did, but they ended up approving what I bought and you could tell they weren't very happy. I will not support evil Steinway Conn Selmer or their products.

LittleRusty · Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:15 pm Post subject:

Don, Lloyd,

The quality issues that people speak of when talking about Bach predate the strike and perhaps predate the purchase by Steinway.

I suspect that some of the issues are related to employees who lost their work ethic indepently of anything to do with managment.

Perhaps the intent was to cull the problem workers and improve the quality of their workers, thus the quality of the instruments.

Or not.

I suspect that we will never know the true story, but it would be nice to have all of the details.

slide911 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 27 May 2007 Posts: 894

"Bought an instrument a couple years back for our daughter and the school held a special meeting to "HELP YOU SELECT" the right instrument for your child. The only problem was conn selmer had their GOONS in there pushing their instruments under the full support of the band directors."

Goons???

You mean the sales guys? The guys that bust their hump in order to bring money into the company and pay the employees, keep the lights on, pay your pension...Those goons?

this thread goes into my permanent ignore file.
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1921 Conn 80A Cornet
1934 King Silvertone Cornet
1951 Martin Committee Trumpet