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Wilktone
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2002
Posts: 727
Location: Asheville, NC
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 Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Hello, again.
At the advice of Dave S., I've been working on developing a Tongue-Type Five. Permit me to quote from the "Encyclopedia" for those who aren't sure what I'm referring to:
| Quote: | | The tongue strikes the back of the upper teeth, the upper gums, or higher depending upon the register being played. Then the tip of the tongue lunges downward to make contact in the gully where the lower gums adjoin the floor of the mouth. While executing an ascending slurred interval, the tongue presses forward to create the essential tongue-arch level and to support the jaw while protruding. While descending the forward tongue pressure is gradually reduced and the position of the jaw recedes slightly. |
Of course, as Dave reminded me, when you change the tongue, air or embouchure the other two must adjust accordingly. At this stage in my work with this, I've found that it takes more effort to play in my extreme high register. In fact, I can't get up as high this way as I could previously (yet).
Other than to continue working on this, does anyone have any suggestions for speeding along this adjustment?
Has anyone else had a similar experience changing tongue-types? What were your initial and eventual experiences like? What are some of the common difficulties found when changing tonguing types? Are there common corrective procedures?
What is the best way to determine the proper tongue type for a brass player? Any general rules of thumb that could be applied? At what stage in a student's development would you introduce this?
OK, I know that's probably opening a can of worms, or at least a very complex topic, but I thought I'd see what everyone had to say about this aspect of the Pivot System.
Dave
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DSR
Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 267
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Dave,
I have also been wondering about similar questions...how do I know which type I should use...ect...
Very interesting topic.
-Brendan |
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Wilktone
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2002
Posts: 727
Location: Asheville, NC
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Just some observations about changing tonguing types here. I've been at this for four days so far.
Again, from the "Encyclopedia"
| Quote: | 4. How is the breath focus related to the level of the tongue-arch?
The level of the tongue-arch is an integral part of breath focus (the cone-like air column from lungs to embouchure). Remember, it is the level of the tongue-arch that governs the size and the direction of the air column as it passes over the tongue so that it may strike the back of the compressed embouchure formation at this point where the least resistance is presented for the blowing. Therefore, the syllables or vowels are used to approximate the correct position of the level of the tongue-arch. The are:
1. AAA - DAAA - TAAA for the lower register
2. OOO - DOOO - TOOO for the middle register
3. EEE - DEEE - TEEE for the upper register. |
Donald S. Reinhardt, page 83.
Previous to Dave's advice I had been playing with a Tongue-Type Two, one of the most common, where the tongue arches and hovers in the mouth, rather than the tongue tip anchoring somewhere, as in the Tongue-Type Five I quoted above. One thing mentioned in the "Encyclopedia" about Tongue-Type Two is that it can allow the jaw to recede too much, causing other difficulties.
It seems very logical, then, that in my process of changing to a Tongue-Type Five that my upper register would initially suffer, since I'm not able to achieve the same level of tongue-arch as I was with a Tongue-Type Two. Perhaps I haven't figured out this new tongue-type just yet, or perhaps I haven't worked out yet how to adjust my embouchure and air to compensate for this new tongue-arch. Probably a combination of both.
Dave S. also mentioned to me (I hope this is OK to share, Dave, let me know if you want me to edit this post and remove this) that Tongue-Type Five is usually the best choice for upstream type players, provided that the tongue is long enough to permit this. It provides added jaw support and also helps open up the sound. My sound is definately more free and less bright with this change, something that I could definately learn to like!
Dave
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DSR
Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 267
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Reinhardt prescribed type V tonguing to my father (IVA) for ALL TONGUING....not just legato passages. Why would he have done this? |
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airdyn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 579
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:41 am Post subject: |
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For DSR...great initials!
The COMPLETE Type V tongue will not be found in The Encyclopedia...it is a "different animal" than the Type V tongue which is for slurring and sustaining only.
The COMPLETE TYPE V TONGUE : Once the tongue tip makes contact with the gully below the lower teeth it remains their throughout the blowing, whether slurring, sustaining or executing all attacks...the actual "striking" occurs from the middle of the tongue striking behind the upper teeth or higher, depending on the range being played.
Now Doc seemed like a "double talker" at times. By that I mean, he told me to use the Type V tongue for slurring and sustaining ONLY, even though I have a long tongue type. He told others to go the COMPLETE route with adding tongueing to the equation. As another example, he told many to play with the teeth spaced as close as possible that will permit the best tone, whereas he told some to play with "clenched" teeth!
I have been playing with a "Schlossberg' tongue for articulation all my life and this mechanical adjustment to tongue in the MIDDLE of my tongue would take a long and uncomfortable application which I think Doc didn't want me to adopt because it would upset my professional playing.
The Claude Gordon school teaches the "anchor tongue", used by Herbert Clarke (see Clarke's Characteristic studies for his explanation of this) which anchors the tongue tip against the lower teeth and the middle of the tongue strikes to produce the attack. This is very close to Doc's Tongue Type VI , except for the tonguing...
Doc's critics wonder why Doc told one person one thing and one person another...HA!...as stated in his interview from Brass World, "there are as many systems as there are people". The Pivot System is for the individual, not the mass! Seeing a qualified Reinhardt teacher "pinpoints" what works for you. As Gary Player, the great golfer once said, "There is no perfect swing. There is only a swing that is perfect for you."
Good question, DSR.
Dave S.
[ This Message was edited by: airdyn on 2003-03-06 11:44 ] |
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