Things we shouldn’t do to your chops –Counter productivity

Capt. Z · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:53 am Post subject:

Things we shouldn’t do to your chops –Counter productivity

Recently in my post about “Cool down” “Warm down” someone wrote not to cool down on pedal notes, but just on regular lower notes. Actually, he wrote that pedal tones as a cool down can be counterproductive.

So I like to see what else would be counterproductive and should be avoided.

Two things that come to my mind are:
Using pressure to play high notes.
Smoking: In my teen years I tried stop smoking on and off and while doing so, I realized that my sound was better in the phases I didn’t smoke.

Generally spoken – not only for warm down:
What are some other things we should avoid?
What are some other things that can be counterproductive to good sound and flexible lips?

PH · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:50 am Post subject:

Wow, this is going to open a can of worms between people who have different approaches.

IMHO the number one culprit is buzzing.

I'll bet the Reinhardt guys will say it is pedal tones.

Almost everyone but the SC guys will say it is tongueing between the teeth.

No one will agree.

What works for you?

histrumpet · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 5:17 am Post subject:

You know Pat, this is one time I have to agree with you. I guess the one thing I can say is that there are benefits to pedals, some lip buzzing exercises, etc. Of course the tongue between the teeth is just part of the Super Chops method. Those who practice this method have learned to live with it, in time maybe others will too. Overall I think the things that hurt many players are not allowing enough time for the trumpet playing muscles to rest and too much mouthpiece pressure. These are things that MAY be a common problem for most players regardless of what method they use.

Bruce

elbobogrande · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 5:29 am Post subject:

I've got to agree wholeheartedly with the rest thing. Chops can't take marathon sessions without rests.

_bugleboy · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:01 am Post subject:

So I like to see what else would be counterproductive and should be avoided.

Two things that come to my mind are:
Using pressure to play high notes.
Smoking:

I would say neither of those things should necessarily be avoided. I use all the pressure I want or need.

Smoking is unhealthy ( I quit many years ago for that reason, but it didn't help my trumpet playing) but I don't see how it is counterproductive to sound production.

Until they get developed, basically, I would say that manipulation and willful tinkering of the muscles of the embouchure and respiratory system are the two things to be avoided.

histrumpet · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:14 am Post subject:

Just for clarification: Mouthpiece pressure in itself is not a bad thing, a certain amount is needed. Excessive pressure can cause a player problems. Of course how much pressure is too much varies from one player to another, a subject I am not able discuss at this time. Now leadpipe playing..............

Bruce

elbobogrande · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:28 am Post subject:

I'm surprised this thread hasn't filled filled up any more/faster. It seems like there's a lot more of what not to do to learn about trumpet playing than there are things you must do.

tromba mann · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:51 am Post subject:

I would think that smoking would affect the sound in that over time it may inhibit your ability to efficienty pull air in "from the bottom up" for proper support. I don't smoke, so I don't know for sure.

After a long workout, I do lip bends (1/2 step, whole step, minor third and a major third) from a middle g, then starting over at F#, then F, etc. until I get to low c, repeating a lip bend with the fingered note for each step to keep the intonation honest. It seems to work for me. I don't feel as stiff the next session, but it could be that the real benefit is the long low tones and not the lip bends themselves. It also seems to help keep my low register clean in general. I'm no expert, I just learned this from a former teacher.

I used to do lip buzzing without the mouthpiece as part of a warm-down and it never seemed to help me much. Much better for warming up and getting the grease flowing - for me. I suppose we are all different and each evolve a routine that works for us.

PH · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:13 am Post subject:

From experience I know that the most counterproductive things to trumpet playing are drugs, booze, smoking, not wearing your seatbelt, joining a cult, etc.

Stay well. Stay mentally healthy. Listen to a lot of great music. Play a lot. Have fun. Love your neighbor as yourself.

As far as trumpet stuff...it seems like everything works for somebody.

clarion89 · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:50 am Post subject:

I use a "cool-down" or "warm-down" after most of my practice sessions or maybe after a gig that was really strenuous - rock band (I don't do that anymore). Anyway, I think a warm-down approach is beneficial. My own theory is that it helps prepare the chops for the next time you play. It also offers the player a mental warm-down as well. I've never been a big fan or promoter of pedal tones. I've used them before, but did not seem to do anything for me. Mouthpiece buzzing is helpful if it is the only way to warm-up. For instance this past weekend, while driving to gig when there was no time to warm up at home, I had to mouthpiece buzz for a warm-up. I don't try to make a habit of this, but it is better than nothing.

Other detrimental aspect to playing - HIGH NOTE CONTESTS!! AVOID THESE AT ALL COSTS!!! They hurt your chops and your maturity level.
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jakester · New Member Joined: 05 Mar 2003 Posts: 2

As a new Comeback Player I am enjoying this forum. I have a question, What are pedal tones?

4Him · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:54 am Post subject:

Counter-productive? How about lack of practice and time with the horn. This sounds obvious, buy how many people can't figure out why they are having problems or can't seem to understand why they are not improving, but don't put the time in...

Ken

Capt. Z · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:59 pm Post subject:

About the smoking issue.

The only explanation I find is the affect the smoke itself has on the lips.

Look at a smokers YELLOW fingers, smoke gets under the skin and does affect the tissue.

I only mentiioned it on top, since it was my experience. I stopped and started smoking several times back than and my sound always got better, when I stopped smoking.

Go figure.
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'78 Bach Strad. 65* w/GR 65S;MS;M;MX
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I mainly play British Brass and Classical Music

histrumpet · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:39 pm Post subject:

Ya know, my wife's parents both smoked until she moved out of the house and she was plagued with sinus problems which at times effected her hearing. Things like chronic ear aches, drainage, etc. Is it possible that you sounded the same but your hearing was off a bit?

Palestrina · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 2:01 pm Post subject:

Here are a couple things NOT to do to your chops:

1. Warmups fortissimo above the staff (unless your first name is Maynard)
2. Start with pedal tones. (They're good at the END of the warmup)
3. Warmup with lip slurs.
4. High note contests (as mentioned before)
5. Moonlight as a clarinetist. Yikes. That'll kill anyone's chops.
6. Put Orajel on your chops just before playing.

My 2 cents...

histrumpet · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 2:03 pm Post subject:

Why not pedals?

BobList · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:29 pm Post subject:

Heh heh.......I gotta say..Practicing with a fresh six-pack doesn't help at all....( been there, still do that) ...Smoking?.....I smoke like a fish....hasn't seemed to affect my playing...I've got good range and volume..
Probably too much volume while warming up is not good....your warmup volume varies from day to day....if I've laid off the horn for a few days....softer is better from the get-go..not enuff rest while practicing is a big chop killer...I know these because I live them.......even though you know better...sometimes time constraints and personal stress makes one do them on occasion...Bob List, Bawlmer, Murlyn

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

Don't file grooves into the rim of your mouthpiece so that it will cling and stick to your lips better.
Larry Smithee

Bill · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:39 pm Post subject:

Hey Bob,

I've heard of smoking like a chimney...smoking like an old Ford, smoking like Chicago after O'Leary's cow kicked over the lantern...but smoking like a fish????

Well you can tune a piano, but you can't tune...well oh never mind

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Bill Mirrielees
Wilmington NC

Wilmington Big Band
Artistry In Jazz Big Band
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mark936 · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:54 pm Post subject:

Try to kiss your K-9 doggy goodbye before a gig.

Feed above animal a snack from your lips.