Accept it or try to change?

[B_Starry]

_________________
do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with God

[airdyn]

Brian, The only way to be sure, absolutely sure, that your "self analysis" is correct is of course with a qualified 2nd opinion, so to speak, or someone to check out 1. the direction of your airstream in a clear mouthpiece and 2. to test Pivot Classification I or Classification II, even though the majority of typeIV players fall under the latter classification.
In regards to the jaw, a good qualified teacher will have you find your "legs of the inner embouchure" by making sure that as a typeIV (if you are!) that the left arm is sufficiently high enough to insure the top legs, or leg in the case of a Type IV. When the legs are established, both top and bottom, the jaw will more or less be in it's correct playing position and protrude (slightly right or left) to ascend and recede (slightly back to the left or right) to descend, all the while keeping those "legs". This is due to a malocclusion, which we all possess to one degree or another.
Doc, in most cases, never said " bring the jaw out"...instead he would say "is your left arm sufficiently high enough to establish your 'legs'?" as this automatically sets the jaw. Here, with this statement he gets you away from the "jaw fixation" and relies on your feel and open sound.
If any one has Phil Horch's interview with Doc ( I think it may be on http://www.pivotalk.com ) Doc talks about this very thing and what to say to a student about his jaw.
I know this will open up much discussion and other views..mine are only Doc's according to my experience with him and with my own students.
Thank you for listening.
Dave S.

[ This Message was edited by: airdyn on 2003-03-08 12:10 ]

[airdyn]

WOW...I can't believe no one jumped on this one! When Doc talked about "horn angle" and "left arm position" and NOT "jaw position", this was in his initial introduction to establishing the correct jaw position.

Once the correct jaw position is established, the player becomes aware of the "sensation" of his jaw position and as his playing progresses from these "formative stages" of the Pivot System, Doc has stated the following:

"Form the embouchure in the prescribed firm manner and, simultaneously, set the jaw in its exact playing position before attempting the initial mouthpiece placement. The two factors must merge as one before, not during or after, the mouthpiece placement has been enacted."

So I am posting this to distinguish a. the beginner's "learning" of the correct jaw position from b. the "awareness" of the jaw position in the more mature player.

Dave. S


[ This Message was edited by: airdyn on 2003-03-09 09:16 ]

[DSR]

So, Dave, let me get this straight. I am a beginner with the P.S. and am having a trouble setting my jaw in the correct position all the time, but I am concentrating on my jaw only. Should I maybe be concentrating instead on my left arm height during my formative stages??

-Brendan

[airdyn]

Brendan,
This forum is really no place for me to tell you what to do. Basically, lubricate properly, set up the lips properly, get your grip and arms in the right place, with the left arm (elbow) forward enough to feel upper AND lower lip contact.
What you say may not be what you do...by that I mean without visuals, you may NOT be a IV (has anyone viewed you through a clear mouthpiece? ). Please, see a qualified teacher of the Pivot System and have him guide you through the Encyclopedia in regards to your specifics. Until you can play, say, from the middle trumpet C up and down a major 3rd with a good, solid, centered sound, the jaw position can only be determined by seeing someone qualified to do so. Many books are of a "self help" variety, but not The Encyclopedia for the beginner, in my opinion.
I wish I could help, but I'm afraid that some advice I find misleading and confusing for the beginner of the Pivot System.
Good luck with your quest and trust you find what you need to know about yourself from a "live" lesson.
Dave S.

[DSR]

Dave, I understand completely. It is hard to get a P.S. teacher when I live 1500 miles away from the nearest one. This is no excuse, however, tonight I'm talking to my parents and seeing what they think about a video lesson. I also did some research, turns out Bill G. is the closest teacher...so at some point in time my father and I might both drive down to S. Dakota to get lessons.

Bill, what's your policy with regards to lessons ect?
Should I contact you off the forum?

[bgibson]

DSR;
Once again Dave S is correct.
I would have to see you in person and have you play with a clear mpc. before I would even attempt to type you.
I was typed incorrectly by someone who took a couple of lessons with Doc and it took me years to eliminate that problem.
Actually I am teaching at IMC in the Peace Garden weeks 6+7 (July13-26)
I am on the faculty at Valley City State University which is located in Valley City, ND. (this should be closer to you than SD)
Please contact me off list, I have some other options for you.
WEG