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Moto Perpetuo - Wynton vs. Mendez |
Wynton |
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22% |
[ 12 ] |
Mendez |
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77% |
[ 41 ] |
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Total Votes : 53 |
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westview1900 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2005 Posts: 1617
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Art isn't like sports such as boxing, where we have matches such as Ali vs. Frazier. It is more like golf, where one tries to improve oneself to master one's environment. Both Wynton and Rafael excelled performing this piece. _________________ Carpe Diem
and Plan for Tomorrow
Pat Paulsen for president
http://www.paulsen.com/
Stephen Colbert for president |
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mariongloryscreamer Regular Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2008 Posts: 11
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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Tell Tiger Woods that isn't competive. It is human fu*king nature to be competitive.
Carpe Dies Nuts _________________ Dubba c comes out like butter on the bugle.......naked. |
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Winghorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 2164 Location: Olympia, Washington
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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I think we should all just ignore the original poster. Obviously, he/she has nothing intelligent to contribute, and to respond just encourages these kinds of posts.
Steve Allison |
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trpt.hick Rafael Méndez Forum Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 2632
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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I removed the original post. It was immature and hateful.
DH |
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DaveH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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My vote is for Mendez. |
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jpetrocelli Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 3147 Location: Northern VA
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Both of them are amazing. But I love Mendez. He was a miracle before his time. A tongue like a machine gun. _________________ Joe Petrocelli |
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JazzmanGIANT Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2006 Posts: 847
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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I like Marsalis' interpretation. I believe it is more musical, and seems to sound prettier..imho. _________________ The thing to judge in any jazz artist is, does the man project and does he have ideas. MilesDavis
"Always be heard - no matter the dynamics."-Mr Adolph Herseth
Yamaha Xeno RGS 2008
Bach Strad 1973
Olds Ambassador 1963
Laskey 65MC |
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trpt.hick Rafael Méndez Forum Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 2632
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Doesn't Wynton slur the notes? I can't remember for sure. |
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kaminari4U New Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Posts: 5 Location: Kanagawa Japan
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:30 am Post subject: |
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Hi gang
Hey trpt.hick I believe Marsalis's version is slurred. I have the book Carnaval and Moto Perpetuo in that book, I don't have the sheet music in front of me but I recall it having a note saying it can be played slurred, lagato or both. I really don't mind v.s. threads when yah talk about inanimate objects like Martin Commitee v.s. Olds Recording (I probably have to save that one for another thread ) but when yah talk about performers v.s each other its hard for me to comment because those are people with differnet approaches to the trumpet. I admire both Mendez and Marsalis and I like both versions. Yah gotta think that when yah put your horn up to yah chops and play but a bit of your personality comes out of your horn (YOUR VOICE). When yah think about Marsalis' personality he's always saying that music should tell a story so you probably say that his version is real flowy and lyrical while we also know that Mendez was a perfectionist OCD and very serious about technique. You can probably say that his tone is good but the feeling is machinical but I'm always in awe when I hear Mendez's version because I still can't believe that a person's tounge can flow like that. That's why in my practice I strive for both musicality and technical superiority |
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Flattergrub Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2008 Posts: 762
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:23 am Post subject: |
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One of the things (among many) that made Mendez so special IMHO was his performance flair. What an absolutely unbelievable showman. A different time that we probably won't see again. Take a look at the clips on YouTube. The whole package right there. Great performer, great artist and great showman. Quite the combination that only comes along maybe once in a lifetime if that. _________________ Smith Watkins "Soloist" cornet with K2 and T4 leadpipes and Denis Wick RW4 mpc |
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chad.daigle Regular Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 85 Location: Dallas, TX
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Flattergrub-
BINGO!
You Nailed it! |
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bike&ed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1837
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Mendez's version will amaze any brass player for his ability to simply be able to tongue the whole thing so cleanly and yes, harshly, while circular breathing. I believe Sergei Nakariakov recorded a tongued version as well.
Wynton's version will amaze ANY human being for his ability to make real music while circular breathing. He also sounds much more like a violinist with his phrasing and register choices.
Who's the winner? In my book they both are. However, I could put Wynton's version in a playlist with other classical selections and nobody would be the wiser, while most non-trumpeters are likely to hear the first few seconds of the Mendez and say "What is this racket? Change the station, this is why I don't like listening to the trumpet, it's such an irritationg instrument."
(Mendez was VERY successful at making non-trumpeters his fans, but I'm 99.9999% sure that this particular piece would be quite uncuccessful at doing so.) |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: |
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In the 60s,70s, and early 80s Wally Phillips on WGN radio held an unbelievable and as yet unmatched hold on the morning drive in Chicago. His audience was usually over 1 million per day.
At least once a year, he would pull out the Mendez Moto Perpetuo and play it. His phone lines would light up with questions and comments from non-musical folks asking where they could get the recording and
just who was this Mendez fellow. A knowledgable trumpet player would usually come on and explain how he did it.
I admire both the Nakariakov and Marsalis versions yet Mendez played it
in a much higher key making for considerable double tonguing around high C and high D. His tempo is nearly the same as Perlman's violin version.
I've listened to this recording hundreds of time and I do not believe anyone will ever be able to play this the way Mendez could.
I also do not hear any harshness while he is perfoming. The recording itself is not perfect and who knows how far from the master tape the albums were made from. Each generation of copy away from the master creates more and more distortion. But harshness from Mr. Mendez I do not hear. Let us also keep in mind this was a technical piece by the extraordinary virtuoso Paganini and it was written to be played staccato.
As stated above, the Marsalis and Nakariakov versions are to be admired and appreciated yet the Mendez version takes it to another level of virtuosity still not approached.
Rich Tomasek |
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ThisGoesToEleven Veteran Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 152 Location: Fair Haven, VT
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: |
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i like wynton's better, it's a little more "listener-friendly"
that said, i'm still absolutely floored by mendez's technique, showmanship, and breath support
also, i lol'd at "carpe dies nuts" |
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trpt.hick Rafael Méndez Forum Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 2632
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Rich,
WELL SAID!!!
Dave |
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Winghorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 2164 Location: Olympia, Washington
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: |
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I like to think Mendez was having fun and saying to the rest of we trumpet players, "In case you were thinking you were catching up to me...." I have never heard, before or after, such exciting and amazing trumpet playing. As many have said, there will never be another Mendez.
Regards
Steve Allison |
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jpetrocelli Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2005 Posts: 3147 Location: Northern VA
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Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Winghorn wrote: | I like to think Mendez was having fun and saying to the rest of we trumpet players, "In case you were thinking you were catching up to me...." I have never heard, before or after, such exciting and amazing trumpet playing. As many have said, there will never be another Mendez.
Regards
Steve Allison |
True that.....True that. _________________ Joe Petrocelli |
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the pharmer Regular Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2008 Posts: 31
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Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Mendez and Nakariakov both recorded this in the higher key of B-flat concert (and both double tongued), whereas Marsalis' is F concert (slurred). |
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gio trumpeter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2004 Posts: 894 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: |
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as we all know, mendez's version (namely that particular recording) wasnt all in one take.. it was spliced together from 4 parts (4.. i think)
** although i'm sure he has played the whole thing in its entirety .. but not in the recording
i have no knowledge of wynton doing that.. but its slurred and in a lower key.. (correct me if i'm wrong)
keeping that in mind. it is simply amazing that someone can double tongue and circular breath at the same time.. that's just crazy
as for sergei.. i'm speechless |
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_TrumpeT_ Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2005 Posts: 1426
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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Vin DiBona wrote: | In the 60s,70s, and early 80s Wally Phillips on WGN radio held an unbelievable and as yet unmatched hold on the morning drive in Chicago. His audience was usually over 1 million per day.
At least once a year, he would pull out the Mendez Moto Perpetuo and play it. His phone lines would light up with questions and comments from non-musical folks asking where they could get the recording and
just who was this Mendez fellow. A knowledgable trumpet player would usually come on and explain how he did it.
I admire both the Nakariakov and Marsalis versions yet Mendez played it
in a much higher key making for considerable double tonguing around high C and high D. His tempo is nearly the same as Perlman's violin version.
I've listened to this recording hundreds of time and I do not believe anyone will ever be able to play this the way Mendez could.
I also do not hear any harshness while he is perfoming. The recording itself is not perfect and who knows how far from the master tape the albums were made from. Each generation of copy away from the master creates more and more distortion. But harshness from Mr. Mendez I do not hear. Let us also keep in mind this was a technical piece by the extraordinary virtuoso Paganini and it was written to be played staccato.
As stated above, the Marsalis and Nakariakov versions are to be admired and appreciated yet the Mendez version takes it to another level of virtuosity still not approached.
Rich Tomasek |
Didn't Sergei play it in the same key as Mendez? |
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