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hvand
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Location: Chapel Hill North Carolina
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 Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:05 am Post subject: The CSO is the top US symphony |
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According to the most recent Gramophone poll, the Chicago Symphony Orchestra ranks as the number one US symphony.
What makes the CSO unique? One word, according to James Inverne, the US editor of Gramophone... BRASS.
I suppose he could have been a bit more specific and said the trumpet section or maybe I'm a bit biased.
Here's the story as told on NPR this morning:
CSO tops U.S. Orchestras
Hank |
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ertatta
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:21 am Post subject: |
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unbelievable! no place on the top 20 for Philly.
Last edited by ertatta on Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pocket Monkeys
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Joined: 22 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| I agree; Cleveland, LA, San Fran & The Met but no Philly? Is it because we threw snowballs at Santa? |
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Derek Reaban
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txtrumpetguy
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Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, Philly should definitely be there. My hometown! |
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camel
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| txtrumpetguy wrote: | | Yeah, Philly should definitely be there. My hometown! |
yep, that's the best reason....  |
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txtrumpetguy
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004
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Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: |
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lol - well, I think they're not too shabby as well.  |
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FTee
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: |
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My symphony can beat up your symphony!
FWIW, I find these kinds of comparisons basically worthless. As Ellington said, "If it sounds good, it is good." If the Philadelphia Orchestra trips your trigger, then who cares if some clown didn't rank them in the top 20? That kind of external validation is unnecessary.
I would love the chance to hear a live performance of Philly -- along with many other orchestras the world over. And I certainly don't need Gramophone's blessing to feel justified in having those wishes. |
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matzentrpt
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Joined: 11 Sep 2004
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Location: Logan, UT (Rochester, Jacksonville)
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Pocket Monkeys wrote: | | I agree; Cleveland, LA, San Fran & The Met but no Philly? Is it because we threw snowballs at Santa? |
I thought it was beer bottles 
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richardwy
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| FTee wrote: | My symphony can beat up your symphony!
FWIW, I find these kinds of comparisons basically worthless. As Ellington said, "If it sounds good, it is good." If the Philadelphia Orchestra trips your trigger, then who cares if some clown didn't rank them in the top 20? That kind of external validation is unnecessary.
I would love the chance to hear a live performance of Philly -- along with many other orchestras the world over. And I certainly don't need Gramophone's blessing to feel justified in having those wishes. |
"Worthless???" I wish! I really do. Have any idea how much $$$ something like this creates. Crying shame says I.
We've got so many things so awfully backwards.
The "we don't need no stinkin' badges" rejoinder is one I feel too. Less now then when I was younger. The "you talking to ME" sort of thing. Most of that has died out.
I've sorted all this out, but anytime I talk about it to just about anyone, folks give me the hairy eyeball. Nowadays, I stay mum more than anything. Not fun.
It's more fun to mix it up, but like it used to be before the internet when you were talking face to face. A social thing humans do with some good effect now and then.
Today, there's a deplorable coarseness that being snug at home firing away at someone across the world breeds. In some. Not in all by any means.
I like the Ellington quote. But all ears are not equal. Mine being on the low side of sonic food chain. Even with lousy ears, the idea that I can like something is comforting.
I was thinking after Derek's post that with 20 orchestras there must be 2,000+ or - musicians. And 80 + or - are trumpeters. All of whom are a world away in ability from me.
There's aspects of it I do not understand. The big picture, I've got. When it gets to details, it all gets muddy.
"My symphony can beat up your symphony." Got me laughing.
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bigredballs65
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Maybe the list is based on concert attendance and the amount of money the orchestra generates per year. May also be based on highest salaries. Maybe just a list based on income of orchestra and players as well as other considerations. Like how high and loud the first trumpet can play.  and how fast... |
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Cornetto
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: |
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No, it's the Sächsische Staatskapelle Dresden, which is also the Dresden State Opera orchestra. I saw them a couple times under Haitink, and they fully deserve to be on any top-20 list. The Philharmoniker is the "other" orchestra in Dresden.
When I saw this, I thought it was about as silly as the AP Top 25. Still, was nice to see the Concertgebouw at No. 1 for a change. They're a great orchestra and they deserve some props. But there's certainly a lot of politics in this list, which you can see in how Russian orchestras were overrepresented, and the British way, way underrepresented.
I saw a short article on how the poll was put together here. Short answer: it's the product of 11 music critics, from specific countries. That's a very small sample for something like this, though, and I think the regional biases showed up really clearly as a result; the AP uses like 65 sportswriters in their polls for that reason (and they still suck).
I think it would be interesting to have a similar poll here on TH. Everyone could rank their top orchestras 1-20, with 20 points for no. 1, and so on, and the results tabulated into a list. I'd offer to conduct it myself, but I have a busy couple of weeks ahead of me. |
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oxleyk
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: |
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That was Bobby Corno in the first chair, and that's the third major flub he's made this season giving him a solo average for the season of approximately .247355, which is pretty darn low for a first chair man.
That means that he'll be up against the Fargo Moorhead Symphony in the World 12-tone series next month. And let's see they not only lead the Orchestral League but I think they're unbeaten this season.
And if Dankeschon can win 4 concerts of them, he'll be the first conductor to earn the pennant since Toscanini. |
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matthes93401
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Best orchestra for what?
Wagner? Mahler? Beethoven? Mozart? Debussy?
Every performance is a unique event with a different team and different leader sharing a unique interpretation. People have good nights and bad nights.
These rankings are at best a generalization of an average. CSO is awesome though.
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backinthegame
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Cornetto wrote: |
But there's certainly a lot of politics in this list, which you can see in how Russian orchestras were overrepresented, and the British way, way underrepresented.
I saw a short article on how the poll was put together here. Short answer: it's the product of 11 music critics, from specific countries. That's a very small sample for something like this, though, and I think the regional biases showed up really clearly as a result
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I don't know if I see a huge regional bias. The country most represented on the panel only got one spot on the list, the British, and no Russian critics on the list yet they still got three spots. While it's impossible to please everybody I think the list is a decent starting point. Also, given the limited number of spots someone is going to be left out, Americans thinking Philly and others who probably feel that a different orchestra should be included.
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trumpetnerd7
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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I mostly agree with this listing. The Dresden Staatskapelle was just here in Bloomington on Monday and they sound INCREDIBLE. Without a doubt one of the best orchestras I have ever heard. I was also glad to see SF up there, that is a dynamite orchestra, and has been one of my favorites for a while now.
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tptptp
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I vote for a playoff, like NCAA football. Oh, wait. |
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Cornetto
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| backinthegame wrote: | | I don't know if I see a huge regional bias. The country most represented on the panel only got one spot on the list, the British, and no Russian critics on the list yet they still got three spots. While it's impossible to please everybody I think the list is a decent starting point. Also, given the limited number of spots someone is going to be left out, Americans thinking Philly and others who probably feel that a different orchestra should be included. |
Actually, the fact that there were three British critics on the panel and only one British orchestra on the list shows exactly the kind of bias that I'm talking about... |
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Derek Reaban
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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I’ve been very fortunate to hear live performances from a number of the groups on this list as well as a number of groups not on this list. I’ve heard Chicago, Cleveland, Boston, New York, Gewandhaus, and the Met live. I’ve also been to live concerts in Atlanta, St. Louis, Montreal, Phoenix, Tucson, and Sao Paulo. I remember hearing Mahler 7 in Phoenix one night and then hearing Mahler 3 in Chicago the next. Both great performances, but I was shocked at how amazing Chicago was in comparison (my first time hearing them live).
What I really like about lists like this is the opportunity to seek out recordings of groups that I have never heard of before. I can honestly say that I’ve never heard of the Saito Kinen Symphony Orchestra or the Budapest Festival Orchestra, but I will look for recordings and if I ever see that one of these groups is coming to Phoenix on tour, you can bet that I will purchase a ticket to hear them!
Cornetto,
Thanks for the clarification on the Dresden group!
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backinthegame
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Cornetto wrote: | | backinthegame wrote: | | I don't know if I see a huge regional bias. The country most represented on the panel only got one spot on the list, the British, and no Russian critics on the list yet they still got three spots. While it's impossible to please everybody I think the list is a decent starting point. Also, given the limited number of spots someone is going to be left out, Americans thinking Philly and others who probably feel that a different orchestra should be included. |
Actually, the fact that there were three British critics on the panel and only one British orchestra on the list shows exactly the kind of bias that I'm talking about... |
A bias away from their own country...two Americans were on the panel and seven American orchestras made the list. I'm just not seeing any sort of consistency to really suggest a bias. It actually almost seems like they tried to make a decent list...
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