Music!

musicmonkey · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Jan 2002 Posts: 344

So much of the discussion on this forum is about the technical and physical aspects of playing, where did the music go?

Often when I have a lesson I find that I am least prepared (and consequently, spend the most time) playing my assigned music.

I'm a decent technical player; I can do slurs, scales, tonguing, long tones, my transposition skills are on their way, and I know one or two things about playing the trumpet. I'm certainly no master, but I feel confident in my technical ability.

Still, it is difficult for me to put these aspects together in a sight reading or solo playing scenario. I think that the best solution is probably to spend more time actually playing music, while maintaining my other skills, but I'd like to hear your stories/advice. Will it get easier if I just play as much music as possible? What's the best way to approach music? Are there any 'tips or tricks' to putting the technical stuff together?

I guess my problem can be summed up as follows: I can do isolated exercises, but sometimes I have difficulty putting it all together.

Hopefully I can clarify if anybody has any questions. This isn't really a huge problem, I'm just trying to address the area of my playing that I think could use the most work right now.

nate

TopGun · Veteran Member Joined: 17 Mar 2003 Posts: 456

Great post. This is a topic that most won't touch. It seems that about 90% around here are obesssed with higher, faster, louder and don't have a clue about music. Of course you have to have the skills but that alone is worthless. Let the music you play tell you what drills you need to work on. When was the last time you heard someone say they did not play well because they didn't have the music going today? Never. How ofter do you heard someone play the trumpet and the most impressive thing was the musical expression? Not often. It is time we bring the trumpet out the dark ages and it will not done with an extra minor 3rd on the top. I hope this helps. If I did not answer all your questions please let me know.

TopGun

trpt-master · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Apr 2003 Posts: 352

Beautiful post TopGun! Bravo my friend. It's really nice to have you on board here! I'm looking forward to some great communication and discussion with you in the futrue.

In Peace,

trptmaster

_Don Herman · Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 7:43 pm Post subject:

1) I think that the best solution is probably to spend more time actually playing music, while maintaining my other skills, but I'd like to hear your stories/advice.

I think you just answered your own question...

2) Will it get easier if I just play as much music as possible?

Not unless you're thinking musically as you play. Worrying about the technique, or high notes, or what to have for supper, is a distraction. Try sitting the piece in front of you and hearing, in your mind, how you want it to sound. Not just the pitches, but tone, dynamics, ornamentation -- the gestalt.

3) What's the best way to approach music? Are there any 'tips or tricks' to putting the technical stuff together?

Do a s earch on TH and you'll find gobs of things to help work out the technical stuff, as you say. In a musical context, my suggestion for tackling a difficult passage is to first play it slowly, in your midrange of pitch and dynamics (i.e. take it down an octave if need be, and play at moderate volume) so that you can get what it's supposed to sound like in your head. Listen to a recording, if possible. If it's a short technical section, play it a measure at a time, gradually adding measures before and after as you improve. Gradually speed it up to tempo as you're doing this.

4) I guess my problem can be summed up as follows: I can do isolated exercises, but sometimes I have difficulty putting it all together.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. What exactly is your problem? Phrasing, technical, endurance, what? Most of these can be solved by a "divide and conquer" approach -- take a small section and make it pretty, then add measures/sections to it, keeping that pretty sound going.

If you're spending more than half your practice time on exercises, that's probably too much. Add more musical stuff, like Arbans duets and phrasing studies, Getchell and other etudes, Flow Studies, and similar stuff. Heck, find some popular music you like, do your warmup, then take a short break while you listen to a recording of it, then play it! Get a book of simple tunes and start having some fun with your trumpet. If it ain't fun, why bother? Might as well be a sax...

HTH - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

TopGun · Veteran Member Joined: 17 Mar 2003 Posts: 456

You just put a tear in my eye Don. Post of the day. Jacobs would be proud.

TopGun

RGale · Heavyweight Member Joined: 28 Dec 2002 Posts: 2818

Absolutely! Arnold Jacobs was a great teacher and human being. Focus on Song and Wind- with the main focus being on song- and the technical stuff will often take care of itself. Jacobs used to say that if your musical intent was strong enough and clear enough your body would usually figure out a way to make it happen. (Given a certain level of technical ability and practice).

trpt-master · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Apr 2003 Posts: 352

Beautiful Don! Thank you for that.

In Peace,

trptmaster

musicmonkey · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Jan 2002 Posts: 344

Actually my original post was somewhat motivated by Arnold Jacobs; I just got the "Portrait of a Master" CD and I have been thinking about a lot of the ideas on there.

Thanks for all the responses, they are very helpful.

"What exactly is your problem? Phrasing, technical, endurance, what?"

I think part of my problem is in phrasing and part is lack of focus on the music.

"Worrying about the technique, or high notes, or what to have for supper, is a distraction."

That pretty much hits home for me. Reminds me of the ideas on "Portrait of an Artist."

"Add more musical stuff, like Arbans duets and phrasing studies, Getchell and other etudes, Flow Studies, and similar stuff."

Excuse my ignorance, but what is Getchell and what are some good flow studies books?

Thanks for the responses!

nate

Horn of Praise · Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 7:17 am Post subject:

I think that "most" trumpet players play for themselves (and/or other trumpet players). Begin to play what "average Joe audience" would want to hear.

Most people want a melody they can follow, good sound, and a musical presentation. They don't care for double C's, blinding speed, and flawless technical ability.

Also, they tend to remember mistakes. Glaring mistakes distract from the presentation. So don't play something "over your head" just to impress. I never do. I have always tried to play "at or below" my own level because it's not for me, but the audience.

Are you there for yourself, or the audience? Maybe you just need to play in front of regular people more. A method book can't teach that. "Average joe" people can give you priceless feedback in their comments and non-verbal communication.

Play well (musically).

_________________
Paul Nelson --- The goal is...MUSIC!!!

Getzen Eterna 700S

[ This Message was edited by: Horn of Praise on 2003-04-06 10:21 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Horn of Praise on 2003-04-06 10:24 ]

Horn of Praise · Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 7:34 am Post subject:

To answer Don Hermans suggestion about Getchell:

Gary Radtke advised me to purchase the Getchell books to address some of the very same concerns this thread is exploring (musicality, phrasing). When I first saw them I thought they were "very basic", but I bought them without questioning his advice because he knows "what he is doing"!!!

First Book of Practical Studies for Cornet and Trumpet (ISBN 0-7692-1957-

Second Book of Practical Studies for Cornet and Trumpet (ISBN 0-7692-2196-3)

(Both books - by Robert W. Getchell, edited by Nilo W. Hovey)

Good luck!!!
_________________
PAUL NELSON - Eclipse White Lightning / Getzen Eterna 900 Classic / Monette B4LD / Blue Juice

roynj · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 2065

The key for me in musical interpretation was learning how to listen. If you're working on a piece, try and find a recording of it. Then listen very carefully to phrasing, dynamics, articulation (key), entrances, everything. Find something in the recoding that you like and bring it into your own interpretation. It's no fun just to copy the recording, but you can get a lot of great ideas from listening. That's all.

_bugleboy · Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 8:18 am Post subject:

95% of making music is mechanical.

CTeneyck · Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 8:31 am Post subject:

Great post!

Reminds me of a quote from Jean Pierre Rampal, a great flutist who recently passed away. I first heard of him when I bought my Brandenburg recording with Maurice Andre. He had something of a hit with 'Suite for Flute and Jazz Piano' by Claude Bolling. Rampal said: "I perform best when I forget my flute is there. You must never play the flute as if it were only a flute. . . "

Don's post is right on. I'll add a couple things that help with me, one who has struggled with the trumpet beast over the years.
- Use hymns for practice on playing musically. They often have great melodies, but you can try to match your play to the lyrics (angry, triumphal, joyous, longing . . .). Try to tell or complement that story through your playing. Churches love trumpet players! So you can get some performance practice in too.
- Try singing through the music without the trumpet.
- every note is important
- for performance, arrange your music so the music comes out. If you're having trouble with a high note at an inconvenient place, take the phrase down.

By asking the question, you'll find your way there. A great example for me is Tim Morrissey's solo on 'JFK'. Not a technically demanding piece, but he conveys the mood so beautifully, which is the point really. A singer I really admire for this is Audra McDonald. There are some samples on this "Fresh Air" interview http://freshair.npr.org/day_fa.jhtml?displayValue=day&todayDate=02/29/2000. Louis Armstrong is the supreme example of musical expression -- can't go wrong studying him.

As has been said already -- we need to balance musical and technical practice. As a recreational player, I've found the only way I can enjoy trumpet playing is to focus on the musical. Thanks for getting me to think on it.

- Chris

jjohnson · Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 8:34 am Post subject:

This post interested me enough to register here. Great subject! I totally agree with what these respected members have said here. While doing my bachelor's degree I had the good fortune of having a very musical teacher. The Getchell series was one of the first things we worked on. After first looking them over I remember feeling almost insulted, quarter and half notes all in the staff... Surely I was capable of so much more! I was quickly humbled over my first few lessons. There IS music there...sound, dynamics, tempo, etc. Memories!!!!!
I recently began using them in another way. Kick em up an octave, they are great for learning to play musically in the upper register. The side effects being better range and endurance, and, if you can get your hands on a tuner, intonation will improve up there as well. The Getchell books work great for transposition. Get creative! Certainly not the end all be all but a great tool nonetheless.
Thanks for the great post!
Jason

TopGun · Veteran Member Joined: 17 Mar 2003 Posts: 456

It is great to see so many thinking about music. Reading down this page has got me thinking about some new things that I think will help. I think 95% of those here are right on the money.

TopGun

jjohnson · Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 9:33 am Post subject:

Someone mentioned the importance of listening and I think also knowing how to listen should be mentioned. There is an excellent article by Roger Ingram on his site about different ways of listening to a recording. Music Monkey, if you haven't read it you might want to check it out. The site is rogeringram.com and the link you want is "practice". He's referring to mainly lead playing concepts but I think it applies to many other concepts of making music.
On a side note, OK I agree with 95% of these guys as well.

Thanks again!
Jason

musicmonkey · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Jan 2002 Posts: 344

jason, it's great to see new members here!

I checked out the site, it is an interesting way to listen. I have never thought about visualizing myself with the band before, I'm going to have to try it.

There's a lot of great discussion here; or at least, I'm learning a lot

Keep it coming!

nate

[ This Message was edited by: musicmonkey on 2003-04-06 15:01 ]

RGale · Heavyweight Member Joined: 28 Dec 2002 Posts: 2818

Doesn't it come back to the way you felt when you were a kid, and you played some piece you really liked? The thrill of doing something that sent an excitement into your body , or a beautiful melody or harmony that gives you that intense feeling like when you see someplace like a redwood forest, or the coast in the sun and the waves crashing against the beach? Moments like that! I bet we can all think of players and performances that give us that kind of feeling.You don't get it often, but when you do, it's wonderful.

PC · Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:49 pm Post subject:

Hi,

Apart from doing a lot of listening and forming your own opinion on which interpretations/ideas you like and which you would discard, try hearing yourself perform a piece before you set out to physically play it on the instrument. Imagine yourself comfortably sitting in the audience and lookig at your (other) self on stage performing this amazing music! Then try to analyse what musical features would excite you most as a listener (sudden dynamic changes, tempo changes, tone colour, etc). I find this extremely motivating and it enables me to milk more music out of any sequence of notes on my stand!

Getting back to Charly's remark, it ain't going to happen if the mechanics of playing are not there, so do not cut back on technical proficiency studies on the instrument. But, I've heard my share of fancy warmups exploring the outer frontiers of the instrument (be it trp, french horn, trb, etc), where I was too awe struck to dare play a single note on my trumpet, only to fall on my face with disappointment the moment the gig began and MUSIC was called for!

Interestingly, having the technical ability to play a certain passage is a must, but this is not sufficient: I have heard players capable of much more prowess than called for in an orchestral setting clam left and right because their mind was not there, no musical plan had been thought for the actual music to be played. My best memory is of playing a Haydn/Mozart mass which had its usual 2 - 3 different notes with nothing faster than quarter notes at slow tempo, but still having the 1st trp guy coach me on how much music could be made out of these sparse interventions, instead of sounding like a computer issuing the right pitch at the right time.

Interesting topic,
Pierre.

[ This Message was edited by: PC on 2003-04-11 01:51 ]

redface · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2003 1:56 am Post subject:

The only purpose of technique is to serve a musical purpose.
If you don't have an idea of how you want it to sound, you won't be able to play it.
All my technical practice is actually performance practice (except Caruso), long tones i try to play with a sonorous warm tone and a sense of musical direction, tonguing studies are played with appropriate style and direction. Always perform. As Bud says - if you have a technical problem it probably means you aren't thinking musically enough.
You don't need hymn tunes or melodic pieces to learn to play musically, do it from the first note every day.

"95 percent of making music is mechanical"
I really disagree here. 95% of sound production on the trumpet is mechanical yes. But making music has nothing to do with mechanics. Depends on how you define music I suppose.