Mike Vax , Shew and Bach 43 lightweight

bebop · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 8:54 am Post subject:

I know this has been talked about before. Have some of you played these horns side by side to compare.

I'm looking for a good big band second chair (solo) horn. Not a screaming lead horn. A horn that responds quick but also has some warmth, body and core to the sound for solo work.
Jim

Pete · Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 9:52 am Post subject:

Jim,

It's amazing how many of us have own so many horns. And then when we have a good one, we sell it for a better??! one!Anyway, I had a 6310Z in lacquer when they first came out. The horn played consistently, but for me, the upper register was choked off. The Mike Vax is a larger version of the Shew model, but with a standard leadpipe. I had one for about a year. I really liked the horn, but I had valve problems with it. It played bright, centered and the resistance for me was good. I still own a Bach 43* with a 43 leadpipe, even though I have a Benge, and recently purchased a new Schilke B1. I've used the Bach on everything from lead, to Jazz, to church solo work. It is probably the most versitile horn that I have come across. That's why I've kept it for the past 16 years. It's unlacquered, and the only major things that I have done to it are a valve alignment (which I have done on any horn that I think I'll keep!), and I replaced the main tuning slide with a new one (exact replacement) because of a split in the slide entering the leadpipe. I don't know any of this helps! Good Luck!

Pete

Trumpet_Mom · Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 8:14 am Post subject:

I own a 6310Z which I use in a jazz ensemble. We play rock, jazz, latin, big band type music. I almost sold it until I compared it side by side to a Bach 43, 37 and Yamaha 8335RGS. The Z horn was the best, IMHO, for the type of music I'm playing. It had the best projection and better tone. It just sounded so much better. As for what type of tone, it depends of the mpc. I use a 14A4A for high ranges, but I mainly use the 14B4 that came with the horn, since I play second chair, and I rarely play above high C. Quite a few Z horn owners on this forum have mentioned a Warburton mpc as their favorite one for this horn. If you can listen to recent music from Bobby Shew or Jim Manley, you can get an idea of what the trumpet sounds like.

bgwbold · Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 2:41 pm Post subject:

Is a 43* some kind of special order now? Most of the lightweights I have seen have had a regular bell. Either that or a 43 regular would be more comparable to a Z, in my opinion.

Mike

roynj · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 2065

I would suggest avoiding the lightweight bach. I find them strident and edgy. The Shew Yamaha is a better horn for commercial work.

bgwbold · Posted: Thu May 01, 2003 7:07 pm Post subject:

It depends on what you are talking about with the 43. A 43* bell might be a little bright for everyday use, but what about the lightweight body and regular bell? Isn't that also referred to as a lightweight 43? I am a little confused with the designations.

Mike

Guy NoVa · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:01 am Post subject:

I own a Bach 43 with both lightweight body and lightweight bell -- large bore. Silverplate. Serial #132XXX. Perfect, mint condition. Not a ding or scratch.

I can only speak for this particular horn when I say that it has a great sound. Crisp. Not strident or shrill. Definitely bright, no doubt, but with a solid core that gives the sound a real meaty feel. Every jazz player who has tried this horn has wanted to buy it.

Players like to talk about how they peel paint of the walls when they open up on their horns. Well, this horn peels paint off walls in the house across the street.
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_dcstep · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:30 am Post subject:

The small leadpipe on the Z will make it backup for many of us when combined with a mpc with a tight backbore. I found that I got good results with GR's #2 backbore.

Dave
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Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

Speaking of the Shew 6310Z, I've owned a couple of these horns in my past, including a prototype model (the 6310B). I found a rather peculiar characteristic with that horn. Sometimes if I scaled up to a high Eb (minor 3rd over high C) the second valve would stick half way on the upstroke of the next note. It was like the air I was blowing was causing the valve to malfunction. When I played this note and just stopped the air, the valve would just pop up normally. Anyone else have this problem with that horn?
Larry

BADBOY-DON · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:23 am Post subject:

Hummmm? Interesting comment about "sticking valve" when poppin' the high notes on that old Shewster of your's????
.....Hummmmm????
Speaking of seized valves?????

Years ago....I had a brand new 1966 BSA Twin 650 Lightning touring bike...that would also do the same thing when traveling up Mount Rainier.....It would also seize...especially around 90mph and elavations around 7000 ft. altitude?

n'allthatjazz.

Jon Arnold · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2026

I have been playing a 6310-Z for almost three years now. It responds quickly, cuts when I push it and sounds smooth and sweet when I want it to. I think it is a great horn. I like tight horns. Players that don't will tell you that the Z is not a good choice. I play contemporary gospel and jazz. It works great for my situation. I have a 37 and also tried all the Bach's in regular and lightweight. It is hands down my pick. I can't wait to try the 8310-Z coming out in April. The only thing I fear is that I will want one.

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[ This Message was edited by: Jon Arnold on 2004-02-27 20:19 ]

nieuwguyski · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:29 am Post subject:

trombapaul2 · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:49 pm Post subject:

Larry,

I have a similar problem with my Vax model. When I'm headed towards the G above
high C, the first valve will freeze halfway up as I'm leaving F. As soon as I stop blowing,
it comes up. At first, I thought maybe my left hand grip was too tight and I was actually deflecting the valve casing but I've tried going up to the note with an open left hand (balancing the horn on the thumb side of my hand with no fingers or thumb wrapped around) and it still happens. Aside from that little intermittent fluke, it's a phenomonal
horn. I've had 2 Vax models and both did it.

Paul
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fuzzyjon79 · Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:00 pm Post subject:

I have only played the Vax horn, and I can say (in my opinion) it is the best Yamaha horn I have ever played. I haven't played the Shew horn or the lightweight Bach, so sorry I can't be of more help, but a lot of players here on the TH swear by the Shew horn.
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Jon Arnold · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2026

When I purchased my Z horn, I also tried the Vax horn. I prefer the tone of the Shew as compared to the Vax. The Shew horn is very different than most and it was one of those things that when I played it, I knew it was the horn for me. Jim, this horn fits your description in your first post of this thread.

[ This Message was edited by: Jon Arnold on 2004-02-10 09:10 ]

Pat · Veteran Member Joined: 18 Nov 2001 Posts: 396

I tried the Shew and Vax horns and remember them as being very different. The Shew horn was a very light weight, tight relatively small bored horn with some real zing to it. Its a unique horn. The Vax horn had a heavy wall body, large bore (I think it had a step up bore design) and a lightweight bell. I think Mike Vax designed it to be a versatile horn that you could use in alot of settings. To me they sounded very different.

tptscream · Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:56 pm Post subject:

I have to throw my two cents in here and side with Pete, who mentioned earlier in this thread that the 43*/43 was the most versatile horn he had ever used. Ditto for me, partner. My 43*/43 ( ser. 137xxx, raw brass, and actually has some battle scars) has gotten me through playing scenarios ranging from orchestral, quartet/quintet/, big band, and some Bill Chase craziness, all with flying colours. Remember also that the mouthpiece/player combo behind the horn will ultimately determine what the horn sounds like. Can't speak for the Vax, because I don't really know it, but the 6310z has always seemed a little restrictive to me, and therefore, not really versatile. I'd say find an old 43* Strad and put the air to it!

2LIP · Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:43 pm Post subject:

1st I think it comes down to what type of music you want to play, and what horn works for you best in that application. More importantly, what MP do you play and does that fit the type of music you want to play with which horn.

For my pennies, I like the Yamahas better than the Bach. I liked the Shew for some things, but the VAX model was better for my needs. If I liked the Shew better, I would probably also look at the Schilke S42, and B7. If I liked the VAX better, then Schilke S32 (Vax horn modeled after), B5 (tighter), B1 (more open) and Kanstul 1500 or 1600. Bottom line is don't limit your search to 3 horns unless that is what you have settled down to after looking at all your options.

Again, of the 3 you mentioned, I would play the VAX because that is how I blow. Remember, the Shew model was made for a guy with 1 lung. Most people have a hard time getting used to focusing the air and backing off to get the most out of that horn.

Good luck,

LIP