How come their are no hero's int he trumpet designing world?

Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792

I find it odd that a repair technician in Chicago could come up with the BIAS system so long ago and no one has done anything with it or like it since he left to join Yamaha??????? Where are the champions of the player's that have data to shine a light through the wilderness that is the bell, tuning slides and leadpipe world of trumpets? Where is the hard core testing that you would think would be common now that we have the technology. I mean you can get digital spectrum equipment that is small enough to fit in your hand that will hook up to your laptop. Their are transducer now that are fairly cheap and again can be lined to a laptop to control and record.....

Most of my acoustical knowledge is basic stuff from H.S. and College Physics class and mostly relating to aircraft as they breach various speed zones from sub-sonic to trans-sonic and every place in between. I am not qualified to do much more then record the information since I do not really have the knowledge that someone looking to produce an instrument to make a give sound would need to interpret the data in a way that would make sense. I also do not have the money to put together the above since I am not working currently. I do know though that their are plenty of people on this board that have the time,money and enough knowledge to do the above and do it very well!

Why is that those that actually have the information will not share it????? Why is this?????Someone like Byron Autrey if they wanted to could easily put people in a place to make informed decisions if they would openly share their knowledge!!! Instead of manufactures and other int he industry being able to prey on people as they currently do with mis-information and out right lies or unsubstantiated claims we could have facts! Cold hard facts! I am not going to hold my breath on this one but that is what I would like to see......

What is the point of all the secrets at this point? Their is not a lot left to the USA's instrument market those still in the game have all the information they need. It is only the public that is missing the real information. Their is no point in being so secretive today as it is only a matter of time before most of the USA's instrument industry is gone for good or seriously scaled down. I do not think their is any chance that the USA's music industry is ever going to be as large as it was in the 1950 and prior so why not give the people the knowledge they need. If anything it will slow down the rate that the foreign competition is able to make in roads since it would give people more to base their decision on then price point and marketing non-sense!

In case anyone has not already glimsed the future this is what is going to happen! First all the student and intermediate trumpets will be maid in China or some other low cost venue. Eventually the Chinese will under cut the market so much in these area's that even those American companies that have their trumpets made in China will not be able to compete since they pay a higher price to get their product to market then the Chinese companies do. Second the Chinese products will be clones tot he last detail and will be just as reliable,durable and sound the same as those products they have copied it is already happening. So the student and intermediate horns will be completely dropped eventually from all Domestic brands products and only the pro models will be kept. So other then national pride from those that want to buy American their will not be much reason to not buy from someone else. Eventually the Chinese will figure out how to build a pro trumpet that Americans like just like Yamaha did. Let's not forget how many people are starting to like the Andreas Eastman line and the Jupiter Line and Yamaha has a good market in America as well. SO know all that will be left is professional models from the domestic maker's.....So what happens when the Chinese can offer a pro sound at a cheaper price???????? So how does one compete???????? Well price point is not going to do it since you will lose every time! So companies will have to offer better design more creative sounds that are not your standard run of the mill Bach 180S37.....They will need to offer insane customer service which will be hard for someone in China to copy! They will need to add value to their product in the way of unique design touches that are more artistic and more human driven something that machines cannot match as well! They will need to be flexible and not keep a lot of product on hand... So a company that can for instance make you any MP you want from any other maker for under $100 and get it out to you in a week or less is going to have the edge over someone that can not. A company that will let you order your trumpet off a menu of design choices for no additional cost is going to have the edge over a company that churns out millions of like models with no choice by the end purchaser..... So for instance Kanstul or any company like them that has modest production volume capability with lots of flexibility will have a huge edge over some one that does not.... If they chose to they could offer their products any way you like them with any manner of bell choices and finish options and the like for no-additional charge or for a very modest charge as compared to their mass produced models. The only reason for the mass production models being that you would not have to wait for it to be built to order as you would have to expect some delay in anything custom made.Offering unique finis's that are labor intensive and not easily done by machine is an advantage. Keeping volume under control to keep prices high might be another thing that they could do! My point is though companies like Conn-Selmer-Bach-Steinway are doomed to fail in the next 20 years unless they start to address their marketing tactics and their manufacturing methods today. Flexibility and near perfect fit and finish along with added value is what will keep them alive! If they start educating their consumer today and not a day latter they can slow the speed with which the cheaper Chinese products flood the market! Once they get solid dealer networks and start controlling which products they send here so as to be competitive they will have a huge advantage. Knowledge is power and it is fair better to give away some secrets that are only secrets tot he purchaser's then it is to hold tight to lies and mis-information and lose your market all together!

So again I am not holding my breath that any OEM will do this but it could very well save the American and European instrument manafucturing industry! I would love to have someone like Byron Autry(sp) actually put his knowledge out their to make all of us better, smarter purchaser's! It has been my experience that the truth and information almost always is in the favor of those manufactures that build quality products and do good work. It almost only ever hurts those that do not care about their market or their products and that do not take pride in what they do!

So is their any one in the industry that is ready to take up the task of what I proposed? Is anyone as a consumer interested in the details of what makes a great trumpet from design elements to real hard core testing of products on the market right now? Anyone else want to see hard core testing of leadpipes, tuning slides, heavy caps, metal guides etc.......Real testing useing scientific methods and machinery that is able to discern what the human ear can not????

I hope this post gets some talk going. I think that if we do not get USA Manufactures to do this they will go the way of GM and the main difference being their will not be a Government Bail Out for people makeing trumpets as their Unions if they have trade Unions do not have enough pull with big government to get such a bail out! If they do not change then they will be gone in less then 20 years!
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Wildman · Heavyweight Member Joined: 27 Jan 2005 Posts: 513

Man, get some valerian root.

Pocket Monkeys · Heavyweight Member Joined: 22 Nov 2007 Posts: 598

...injecting...atropine...directly...into...heart...

CMUSoloCornet · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject:

I didn't read this post.

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Rich G · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:07 pm Post subject:

May I go to the lav?
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ILBBACH · Veteran Member Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 123

So in a sense all that you are really searching for to satisfy this concern is a generic brass instrument software program loaded into a musically engineered davinci by intuitive...

Done...Solved...

NEXT ISSUE!!!!

Your kid could even verbally describe a prescribed pattern to be produced...

Whats all the fuss!?!?!? whats all the fuss!?!!?!?!

sunburstbasser · Heavyweight Member Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 1194

I guess you aren't counting Andy Taylor, Roy Lawler, John Duda, and Thomas Inderbinen.
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Dr. Stu · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject:

I think you are suggesting that American instrument manufacturers make public all their trade secrets and proprietary manufacturing information in order to decrease foreign competition???

I do read a lot of your posts, or at least most-of a lot of your posts, & really try to figure out exactly what you are trying to say, or what I think you think you are saying, but this time, I must admit, I am stumped.

I also rarely editorialize on this, or any site, but this time I do have to ask you...

(I did come across this pic on one of my chat groups (might have been here), & it so perfectly expressed my feelings that I felt compelled to add the editorial comment.)

-Stu

plankowner110 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620

How can we be sure that President Clinton didn't already give the Chinese the secrets of trumpet design like he did with our jet fighters?
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darinkelly · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:47 pm Post subject:

Wow, dude, you ought to back off the peyote.

cjl · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject:

Wow. What a post, Cap'n. Just when you think it is safe to come back into the water ...

I was scanning through it and hit this quote:

pfeifela · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject:

I had to shave twice but I got through it.
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TekTrumpet27 · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject:

*self destructs*
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1B · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject:

"How come their are no hero's int he trumpet designing world?"

Hey Captain,

I too neglected your rant as I usually do. However, let's work on some basic English skills: "their" as written means to belong to. I think you were intending to use "there" instead. In any case, I'm happy you are able to relieve your daily stresses with your useless rants.

Good luck,
Jaimie Hall

Shaft · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Sep 2006 Posts: 985

I didn't read it either.

But I read all of the other posts under it.

Funny we all did the same thing.

All of that work and no audience........
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buhdda316 · Veteran Member Joined: 09 Sep 2004 Posts: 187

can this guy be banned already please?

kellymilch · Veteran Member Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Posts: 140

The Captain ain't happen'in

Needs some of whatever Anna Nicole Smith had.

buhdda316 · Veteran Member Joined: 09 Sep 2004 Posts: 187

I retract my previous statement, freedom of speech should be allowed here and Kirk isn't being malicious. Kirk, can you shorten up your posts a little? they are too long. If you have a point to make shorten things up so interest isn't lost due to length. Most people here feel you fail to make a point and I tend to agree, if you are gong to ramble pointless non-sense then at least make it short. Thank you

mdiceman · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject:

Beam him up, Scotty. PLEASE...
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AverageJoe · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject:

In the Far Side vein: