Is there a high note method that consistently works?

cmac3317

I'm a DMA student who plays a lot of "legit" and commercial/lead stuff, and I've been very happy with how my playing has been developing over the past few years. However, one thing I can't seem to open up is my extreme high range (above high G/G#/A). I took a lesson with Roger Ingram and tried the yoga breath thing for awhile (which did help a little), but I eventually got sick of all the head rushes that resulted from that. I tried the Cat Anderson method, but never kept with it beyond the warm-up 20-minute "whisper G," as that seemed to hurt my playing (in the form of soreness and consistent airballing on higher notes, although I'm sure I was doing it right... as one friend put it, "why would you run a marathon before you race all day?")... Is there a high-note method out there that works without being painful and/or unhealthy? I'd really like to get up to a consistent double-C (and anything above that would be cool too

), and I definitely have the drive to stick with a method if it doesn't seem to be hurting me or my playing (and I am completely unwilling to sacrifice my "legit" sound and technique for range). I'd appreciate any comments... Thanks

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cinci-sop · Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject:

Try the Claude Gordon method. I've been playing for 30 + years and never could play much above a C/D and struggled to play those. I've been working this method for just under a year and can play C/D's like there nothing. E, F and G's are really starting to be consistent and I hit a double high C a couple weeks ago for the first time in my life. I would suggest getting a certified teacher. My teacher, Bruce Haag, also does on line lessons. There are a couple others on TH that I'm sure can help also.
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cmac3317 · Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:48 pm Post subject:

I appreciate the reply... I'll be sure to check out the Gordon method... Just to be perfectly clear, I'm talking about the extreme upper register (as in, above 4-ledger-line-G)... I've realized that it's not about pure strength, so I'm looking for a method that helps to play efficiently, consistently, and with power up there.
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John Holifield · Veteran Member Joined: 17 Oct 2008 Posts: 291

I second Claude Gordon.
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HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2582

It depends on how you define "works". The principles of how notes are produced in the extreme high register are consistent. The methods by which a particular player can fully employ those principles, however, are inconsistent due to the physiological differences in players. So, the various methods have to be fine tuned to the player and some methods naturally fit some players better than others.

For some players a method "works" if it helps the player develop range to high C. For others, a method "works" only if it helps the player develop range to double G. Or double C. Or some other note. It's all very personal.

For the vast majority of players, developing useable "on demand' range at double C and above is like television on honeymoon: Unnecessary. If you have legitimate, useable, never miss, "on demand", clear and solid range to double A, you are (1) one of only a handful of such players and (2) you have all the range you will ever need for 99.9999% of musical situations. By and large, range above double A is more in the category of a novelty than a useful or necessary musical tool. Focusing on developing range at double C and above may actually create some bad habits, such as an embouchure shift to squeak out the notes, which may, in turn, create problems in producing the range you already have. You could be expending the same time and effort to further solidify your existing range which would, overall, serve you better musically.

Be careful what you wish for.
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Grant Gilbert · Veteran Member Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 170

This will definitely take care of it better than you could ever imagine:
http://www.warburton-usa.com/index.php/products/accessories/36-accessories/190-PETE
Also:
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90441
Also:
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90513&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

Yamahaguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992

Total Range...hands down.

Pops · Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:50 am Post subject:

Practice.

That is after all what those range methods are all about.

Instead of playing 10 notes a day above High C you suddenly play 200 notes a day above High C and you add to it every week.

Non of them have anything hidden. They simply say get off your butt and Practice.

That is the key for the Gordon book. It is Called Systematic Approach to Daily Practice because "Daily Practice" is the ONLY thing that works.

Play exercises out of Arban up an octave and you get a better workout because it is more varied.
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TiredChops · Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:41 am Post subject:

EdMann · Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject:

I've always found it hard to believe that one method could work for most people, or even a minority of people. We're all built so different. What's been working for me are diciplines from different methods, which frankly should all be sampled carefully and used sparingly; we're here to make music, not just play trpt like a soprano opera singer. When I start to fail is when I obsess about playing upstairs a lot and playing it loud. Then I step back and think about playing musically, with some dynamics.

There, I'm better now.
ed

Pops · Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:17 pm Post subject:

I agree that if you have playing issues practice won't always do the trick.

However; Practice is the MAIN focus and often the only focus in range building books.

That is what I was pointing out.
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maynard-46

Carmine Caruso Method. Worked for me from day one and is still working for me (and my students) 42 years later!!!

Butch
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cmac3317 · Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject:

Again, I appreciate all the responses. However, I find it kind of funny how hard it is to get straight answers from people on these forums that don't sound preachy. I am a very experienced player currently making my living by playing and teaching. I understand that consistent, proper practice is required for success in any aspect of playing. Also, I completely disagree that a high A is all that will be required 99.9999% of the time. This is especially untrue if one wishes to make a (very) successful career in the commercial/lead market (I agree that most of the time that range isn't needed, but even so, percentages aren't really important). And as I said, I will not let other areas of my playing or my health suffer in trying to increase my range. So, I do believe that I'm going about this in at least a moderately intelligent way. I'll try to be clearer in asking my question again... If there is a particular method (book or otherwise) that has helped you in playing more efficiently and consistently in the extreme upper register (to me, that means above high G) without being detrimental to other aspects of your playing, I would love to hear about it. I'm definitely going to have to check out the Gordon stuff... Again, I sincerely thank all of you for your replies

.
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cmac3317 · Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject:

Also... which Gordon book(s) specifically? Systematic Approach? Tongue Level Exercises? Thanks...
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cinci-sop · Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject:

My teacher has us use, Systematic approach to daily practice, Daily Trumpet Routines, along with the arbans, Irons, Clark studies.
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tptguy · Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject:

Cmac, I think I hear you loud and clear because I struggled for 2 decades trying to build real range, power, and endurance with the Gordon and Reinhardt methods. Like TiredChops points out, beyond a basic level it's not about how much you practice, but overwhelmingly about what you do as you practice. Several years ago, I stumbled onto Jerry Callet in Staten Island. In 30 minutes, I learned more about efficient, intelligent development from him than I did in 20 years with the other big names. And, the progress in playing as well as ears and understanding has been fantastic. I'm absolutely sure he's the guy you are looking for - sooner or later. :>) Lastly, a big congrats to you; schools need guys like you - guys that want to go further and are willing to put the elbow grease in to make it happen.
Best wishes, Kyle

TiredChops · Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject:

cjl · Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Range

cmac3317 · Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject:

that's what i'm saying, it seems hard to find people who really want to just discuss trumpet playing on these forums and who aren't ultimately out to sell you something...
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"eventually, the listeners move right along with the musicians." -john coltrane

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Grant Gilbert · Veteran Member Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 170

Grant Gilbert wrote:
This will definitely take care of it better than you could ever imagine:
http://www.warburton-usa.com/index.php/products/accessories/36-accessories/190-PETE
Also:
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90441
Also:
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90513&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

While I don't know who you are and what exactly your planned purpose with all these PETE posts is, I do know that you have convinced me NOT to purchase one. Your over-the-top hyping of this product has really turned me off towards it.
-- Joe
I get no benefit from anyone purchasing the PETE, and I paid full price for mine. I see a lot of things on these forums that are repeated by enthusiastic people, and a lot of negative argumentative things. Does someone have to have a selfish or bad motive to post something that helps them and a lot of other trumpet players fantastically? This forum is about helping range, and I have never seen anything better to assist that than the PETE along with playing trumpet, if used in a "proper" waylike someone said about practice. Many people will vouch for how great the PETE is. Maybe only a few people will benefit a lot from my posts, and maybe they are glad they found out about it. If so, it's been well worth it. I'm glad I found out about it. I wouldn't have wanted it hidden from me. I would have missed a lot of benefits. Anyone can choose NOT to get the PETE, and miss out on a great thing, but if they hear about it, at least they had the opportunity made known to them. To choose not to buy something good, just because someone posted a lot about it, would be a very poor reason. Everything I've said about it is TRUE, believe it or not, or I wouldn't have said it.
I thought we were all here to help each other. If I'm criticized for sincerely trying to give honest and true help for something wonderful that really works great, it's sad. There are always people that will find fault with anything, no matter how good it is.
I'm very glad and very grateful that I was able to find out about the PETE, and I know there are many other brass players that feel the same.
Grant