Trumpet Players Reputation: Egotistical?

trickg · Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:18 am Post subject:

Man, I wish that I could hit double C! (the one an octave above the one that is 2 ledgers above the staff, just for clarification.)

We have to have egos. I have to be honest, one of the reasons that I play and continue to play is because I love it when someone says how good the band/horns/I sound. By that very same token, I have a really hard time practicing just to practice. If I'm not practicing for a performance of some sort, I have a really hard time getting into it, and that is linked directly to my ego. But I don't flaunt it because in the arenas that I play, most of the cats that I play with blow me out of the water. I can hold my own, but the only real bragging rights that I have is where and when I have gigged as opposed to what I can do behind the horn.
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Patrick Gleason
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

Warbird · Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:58 pm Post subject:

Ok...double C is what you are calling the High C...the C above that is super C than above that is sonic C than above that is pure C and so on...and also...not the entire school but half of our trumpet section in our school do have to play that high in order to keep their placement. Oh yeah, and most people out of our band do play their instruments in some way after college. We have about 16 guys out ofthe 50 trumpets at our school that can hit the super C and about 5 that can hit the sonic C with good sound...after that they do start squelling.
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Warbird · Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2002 1:02 pm Post subject:

oh yeah...you never replied to my comment about the G in the staff...why do you disagree? I find your logic interesting if not completly screwed up...

PS We are one of the best bands in the nation so its not that ahrd to believe.

j_rowe · Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:23 pm Post subject:

trumpetgeek234 · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2002 6:13 am Post subject:

@warbird

Is your High-School some sort of music school? or Conservatory? Where do all those triple C players come from? Also I don't think that 5 people of your trumpet section can play triple C with good tone. Actually I have never heard ANYONE play a triple C with good tone. It almost always sounds extremely squeaky. Even on that one Maurice Andre recording of Michael Haydn's trumpet concerto, the B just below double C sounds a little crappy. You can't tell me that five guys of your High School play that tone better than Maurice Andre. How long have all you guys been playing and who is your trumpet teacher?? I am really curious about that.

PB

trickg · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2002 6:35 am Post subject:

I think that there is some confusion as to just what High C, Double C, Super C, Sonic C(?) (hadn't heard that one before) are.

I'm quite certain by following this thread that the C being referred to as High C is the third space C, a common mistake. When I first started playing trumpet, I thought that was high C as well.

I live in the Washington DC area which is an area lush with great trumpeters due to the pressence of the premier military bands in the area and I can tell you with certainty that not a single one of those bands has a section where most of them can play 5th ledger C or above with good sound, and these cats are heavys. I've gigged with and heard these bands multiple times and that just isn't the case.

If it is actually true that you have 16 kids in a HS band that can play 5 ledger High C with good sound, send me a recording please!
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

Ken Roe · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2002 7:21 am Post subject:

Bravo Dave. Bravo!

trickg · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2002 8:19 am Post subject:

I agree with you 100% that you don't need a Double C to be musical, in fact, there are those that would argue that a Double C ANYWHERE is NOT musical. Most of the MUSIC that I have played in my lifetime is under 2nd ledger high C.

However, with the gigging that I am doing now, I am called upon fairly often to play up to Fs and Gs above the 2nd ledger High C (rock band) and it can be like throwing darts. There are days when I just don't seem to have it there so if I had the extended range, it would make life a little easier. Range and endurance are things that I continue to struggle with and it would be nice if I could eliminate them from my list of worries, which would in effect, make me more musical.

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Patrick Gleason

[ This Message was edited by: trickg on 2002-01-29 11:36 ]

kenny dorham is an animal · Veteran Member Joined: 15 Jan 2002 Posts: 133

all i can say is
your only as good as you want to be and If your good you know your good. It's one thing when somoene comes up to you and says, ur good and you say yes i know i am great. But it's another thing if you say thank you, but i still got a long way to go or something along those lines. Because in your head you know your good but you still really do have a long way to go, but these people want to talk god about you and they dont want you to disagreee. Sorta.
Later
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DRES

NCTrumpet · Veteran Member Joined: 03 Jan 2002 Posts: 113

Remember the three registers on the horn: The high register; the low register; and the CASH register.

JC!

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

Warbird · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 pm Post subject:

I know many of you think I am making everything up but I am really serious. No, our high school is a public high school. Its just that the people at our school (for the most part) are very dedicated and think very highly of their music. I can't send you a recording because of the fact that we have no recent recordings. All of our funds goto competiton during marching band and jazz band and things for the students. Afterall, what good is a band program at a school if it doesn't benifit the students? These kids are just average kids that come from the area. We do, on occassion, have someone move from other areas of the south to this area to be in our band, but unfortunatly, the fine arts isn't regarded highly enough for it to matter that much and lots of people, regardless of our talent, refuse to recognize Concord High as a good school in Music...plus our chorus, drama, and art suck so our band is the only real thing going for us. Everything else is about average high school.

In Chirst,
Joseph N. Pack

Warbird · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:46 pm Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: Warbird on 2002-01-29 20:09 ]

j_rowe · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2002 6:50 pm Post subject:

Hey Warbird...I wasn't doubting you, I just knew you were using different Double C terminology than I was thinking ... Thats all...Don't take any offense to my ramblings...I mean no harm - - REALLY!

BTW, I just saw that yor are in Concord...I went to Albemarle Senior High School for about 6 months while my Mom was working in Kannapolis...That was in 1997. Tim Hedrick was the band director, and it was absolutely the worst band I've ever played in (at that time, It may be better now)...We wen't to Lincoln for Concert Band Contest and got a III.

peace - jay

edtaylor · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2002 7:41 pm Post subject:

Warbird,
What embouchure is your band leader teaching?

Don O · Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2002 8:38 pm Post subject:

This thread has certainly produced mixed reactions, to say the least. But it appears some of you guys don't know, or can't express clearly, the standard notation for notes by octave. Warbird got it started by saying that to be accepted in the trumpet programs in his school they had to be able to "hit" double high C. Hitting and playing a tone are two different things. But I too found that to be a fantastic statement for a high school music program. Then, Joseph added later , quote "Ok...double C is what you are calling the High C... the C above that is super C...etc". This is even more confusing, especially the terms "super C", "sonic C" and "pure C". I've been playing this instrument for 50 years and I have yet to hear of those terms applied to registers.

Now hear this and I am sure at least most of you know this, the C just below the staff is notated c' (=c1 which we call Low C), in the middle of the staff it's read as c'' (=c2 or Middle C), one octave up just above the staff as c''' (=c3, commonly referred to as High C), then next octave up as c'''' (=c4 or double High C) and next octave up as c''''' (=c5 or triple High C).

Now, Joseph named his trumpet teacher as John Carmichael. Didn't say if he was his teacher at school or outside the school. Anyway, if Joseph insists upon his statement that he is "required" by his school to be able to "hit" a Double High C (c'''') to play in the program, I would like that confirmed and discussed by whoever in his school makes such a demand. Otherwise I would appreciate hearing from Joseph exactly the tone level to which he refers, based upon the above notation system. Thanks.

Don Olmsted

"He who knows every note more thoroughly understands the effect".

trickg · Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2002 5:30 am Post subject:

It's interesting where this thread led, even though it basically runs around the same thing: ego.

The thought that there is a HS section out there where a solid third of them are able to play well into the octave above High C bruises my ego just a bit. (by which I mean C3, D3, E3, F3.....C4)

However, a lot can be said for age, experience and time behind the horn. I once played a Salsa gig where both myself and another young kid that I scrounged up (by young kid, I mean that he was 20 where I was 30) were both sight reading the gig for a Latin band that a friend of mine played in. This kid pretty much had it all over me. He had better technique, range, sight reading abilityand endurance. However, by the end of the gig, it was me who fared better because of the fact that I had gigged Latin Band for almost two years prior to subbing this one so I knew what to expect. To those of you out there that have gigged Latin, you know what I'm talking about when I say that the roadmap can be confusing at times.

I left the gig with my ego intact.

Of course, if I were gigging in that band with this kid on a regular basis, he would wind up blowing my doors off, but age, time and experience certainly paid off that night.

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Patrick Gleason

[ This Message was edited by: trickg on 2002-01-30 08:31 ]

Warbird · Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:14 pm Post subject:

Ok, I'm gunna try to handle these one at a time:).

j_rowe...that school actually I think has a pretty neat marching band. Its small, but they had some awesome ideas for shows last year. Sorry if I got angry or irritated with you. Sometimes when it seems that someone is attacking my person I get kindda defensive. Well, good deal...ttyl!

edtaylor...shoot, Phillip Morgan our band director is a percussionist. He doesn't show our trumpet too much. He just knows how to make it text book perfect, he doesn't have much trumpet experience. The way most people get their habbits of how to play is by private teachers or by just what a "perfect" trumpet player is suppose to look like.

Don-O...I am sorry if our terminology is foregn. I do know for a fact that these are correct terminology for the different levels of playing because we have had various people from around the country come and teach specific sections. Now, I am not bragging when I say this. At Concord, we hold our students upto strict standards and the thing is, we can all achieve whatever we want. You can play exactly like Dizzy Gillespie if you want to...its just that you must have the determination and work ethic to do it. We are all master players inside, its just we have to find out how to harness these skills. Now, lets not be picky with my terminology...you know what I mean when I say "hit" the double C. I mean be able to play it with a clear sound and sustain it for a reasonable amount of time. This is what is required to be in the two out of three bands in our school that are above college level. The Concert band plays advanced high school and college level music, the Symphonic band plays advanced college and some proffessional music, and the Wind Ensamble basically sight reads proffessional level music and puts it all in a folder and literally the day of the concert Morgan goes, "Ok, we're going to play...". Our wind ensamble is crazy the things they do. We have people all the time graduating to goto Temple U., JMU, and to do toher things such as professional orchestra and DCI with the Blue Devils. a matter of fact, the lead euph. for the Blue Devils right now is a Concord graduate. I am very proud in the accomplishments and standards of this school.

trickg...luckily, the most seniority you can have on a person in high school is 4 years:). But, good point!

In Christ,
Joseph N. Pack