Is a Doctorate a Proper Credential?

[kehaulani]

This is going to rub some readers wrong but I'm going to ask it because it seems there are some pretty knowledgable folks on this forum and I really would like to get some opinions other than mine.

What is the validity of a doctorate in a performance medium? It seems to me that the primary reason is to land a university faculty job.

Here's how you get a job in one of the music conservatories here in Germany: you prove yourself as a professional performer first, usually either as a member of one of the major symphonic orchestras or one of the major radio jazz orchestras. No amount of accreditation will replace that proven professional experience.

And yet, it seems to me, that the American educational system is terribly inbred; that is so-in-so studied from so-on-so who studied from so-in-so. The downside of this absence of real, major performing experience should be obvious.

A case in point. A doctoral student from a major university recently auditioned for a military band (not one of the DC bands, either). The fellow just couldn't perform with the practicality, sound and maturity needed for this military band. He failed the audition.

When he protested, a 19 year old, new to this band, was brought in to demonstrate what the doctoral candidate was lacking. This young troop had been studying for several years with the principal trumpeter of a major orchestra and just blew the doctoral candidate into the next county.

The difference was that the young guy was getting practical training directly from a modern "master"; the doctoral candidate from another DMA.

Now, this guy couldn't pass an audition for a military band (a very good one, I'll admit) but there was little doubt that he would complete his doctorate and wind up passing along his off-the-mark training to other budding hopefuls. Somebody's getting cheated here, or...?

By the way, just so there're no misunderstandings. I have a doctorate.

[trumpetDS]

What does not make sense to me, is that many well known performers cannot get college teaching jobs because they do not hold a doctorate. My undergrad teacher, was an Ernset Williams alumni, principal in New Orlearns, and soloist in the Washington Army Band, and could not be hired at certain colleges because he did not have a doctorate.

[PH]

The real irony is that the larger highly reputable schools usually do not insist on advanced degrees for their faculty (especially in performance areas). They insist on ability and experience as a performer, along with the ability to teach. Ironically, it is the smaller schools that tend to prioritize academic training over experience/ability.

Indiana, Eastman, Julliard, etc. have many faculty members without doctorates. Here at IU we have a number of faculty members with no degrees whatsoever. I do not believe that anyone on the brass faculty has a doctorate. Therefore, most of us would not get an interview if there was a trumpet opening at Northeast Rhode Island State University.

Go figure...

[4Him]

I think in some fields, the doctorate has less to do with career advancement and more to do with an individual's desire to be engaged in a different level of learning and research envolvement. A performance major, for example, may not substantially increase his/her teaching ability or skill level by attaining a doctorate, but they (perhaps driven by nothing more than their own personal ambition) will have immersed themselves over a period of years in a specialty area. For some, there is tremendous gratification in that alone--- and that is all the motivation they need to pursue an advanced degree. Especially in an area where the doctorate may not be the clincher in getting a job, it is really a personal choice-- one that some would look back upon after the opportunity has passed with regrets.

Just my opinion.....

Ken

[Irving]

If Universities didn't require a Doctorate in order to teach, then who would bother getting one? I'm referring to Doctorates in Music Performance. I suppose that Universities need to perpetuate their own existence, so they require Doctorates in order to make their degree "useful". From the Universities' point of view, this system makes sense. From the performer's (teacher's) perspective, not to mention the student's, who is only interested in a teacher that he can learn something from, it hardly makes sense.

[trptcase]

You have brought up a very good point! Although I am currently on the hunt for a doctoral program, I do not believe that there is any piece of paper that automatically proves you can play. The CMS Vacancy list, however, is full of the statement "masters required, doctorate preferred." I am interested in both performing and teaching at the collegiate level, so I am planning on the docotrate because I believe it can give me an extra edge for certain teaching positions. While it won't prove that I can play, the degree does hold significant academic value which can prove to be important for a university position. Performing experience is also EXTREMELY improtant!!

It has also been my experience (as I'm sure others may share) that not all great players make great teachers!

Actually, who am I kidding? I just want to throw "Dr." in front of my name! (not really)

Casey Matthews

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

Someday when I go to college for trumpet, I'm going to make sure the teacher is someone who has real-world professional-playing-experience, not someone who just has a Dr. in front of their name because they went to college for a long time. Some of my older friends tell me that the college/university scene is like fantasy land. One thing's for sure - I don't want to be babied and told that I'm "doing fine" when certain issues need to be addressed. Since the competition is so stiff for a job, I want to get my money's worth - but if I keep it up, I'm hoping to get a full scholarship somewhere. Even so, I'd rather pay to go study with a real player, as opposed to take a scholarship to study with a "poser." Am I making sense?

Home sick today.

NewKid

[trickg]

There are some great and interesting points brought up here. I don't have a degree in music and in fact, other than a diploma from a technical school, I don't have a degree at all, however, that has never seemed to hold me back as a performing musician in the area.

When I was an Army Bandsman and going to the Armed Forces School Of Music in Littlecreek, Virginia, I was surprised at how many people were there with music degrees that were struggling to get through the school because they were having a hard time performing. Some had performance degrees, some had education degrees, but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you are on the spot and you are having trouble performing. This isn't to say that everyone that I knew there with a degree couldn't perform, because there were people there that had been through a college music program that could just blow my doors off, but I think that the degree has far less to do with your ability to perform than you're natural aptitude for it and what you make of the exposure to performing that you receive while pursuing a music degree.

I have always joked that my music education came from the School of Hard Knocks. I hit my first Army band at the beginning of the summer season and was placed into a sink or swim situation. We had 5 trumpet players if you included the Sergeant Major so I was placed in virtually every ensemble there was and surrounded by players much better than myself. My choices were to rise to the occasion, or to bring negative attention to myself for my lack of ability, so I quickly came up to the needed performance level. When it comes to learing to perform, one of the best ways to get better is by doing it.

I still want to get a degree in music, but it will be for my own satisfaction and not something that I hope will put me over the top for a gig.

_________________
Patrick Gleason

email me at: trickg1@hotmail.com

[ This Message was edited by: trickg on 2003-05-13 09:36 ]

[Nonsense Eliminator]

PH, as usual, has hit the nail on the head. Big-time schools, that have big enough reputations to secure $$$$ regardless of the percentage of faculty with doctorates, can afford to hire the best players and teachers. Smaller schools are under three influences which force them to hire doctorates. First, many universities don't want to hire faculty who don't have doctorates, because it looks bad on paper. Second, in many smaller schools, instrumental instructors are forced to moonlight as theory or musicology profs, where an academic background is genuinely necessary. Third, smaller schools tend to have a higher proportion of PhDs and DMs than big-time performance schools, so the ivory-tower types protect their own.

The other factor is that there are doctorates, and there are doctorates. Some are heavily academic, some are heavy on performance. Some are both -- and some are neither, which is the scary part. There are places where you can take one or two courses a semester, do a recital or two, take a couple of exams, and come out with a DM in two years. (Notice I didn't say anything about a dissertation!)

I guess the ultimate indicator of how I feel on the subject is that I was a doctoral student until I won a job, at which time I finished my semester and left town. My goal was to learn to play the trumpet well enough to get a gig, which I achieved. Getting the piece of paper is only relevant if I want a job at a school that only cares about the doctorate -- and I don't want a job like that. Maybe someday I'll finish it up. If I did, I think that would make two of us in the orchestra -- which also says something, I suppose!

[stukvalve]

In Florida they are really cracking down on this.

Jeff Peterson, the principal trombone of the Jacksonville Symphony was just declined an adjunct teaching job at the University of North Florida because he doesn't have a masters degree.

Another situation is one of my teachers already, Kevin Bales, was forced to leave for a year to go get his masters, because they are trying to set a standard where everyone has at least some graduate work in order to teach at a university level. Kevin is a bluenote recording artist (on Marcus Printup's Nocturnal Traces, for one). The students really were cut short this year not having kevin around. Especially the ones who came to study piano with him.
_________________
"It's not about working hard, It's about being organized." -Wynton Marsalis

matzentrpt@hotmail.com

[kehaulani]

Wait a minute. Isn't the UNF where Rich Matteson founded the jazz department?

I don't think Rich was particularly well endowed with degrees. What would the implications of the new policy mean in THAT situation? Shame.

[adamcz]

I also am going to get a doctorate because of all the requests for it in CMS. It's really the only reason I'm getting a masters degree right now too. In my undergrad I was presented with way more material than I've had time to digest, and I also know how to use a library and a cd player, so there's really no musical need for me to go to school right now (which is not to say that I'm a great player now - just that I could follow the path on my own). On the other hand, school definately won't make me any worse, and I've been meeting a lot of great musicians, and getting the degree I need. Then someday I'll get the chance to teach other players who are only in school so they can become teachers themselves.

The irony of this doesn't bother me though, because all the while I'll be composing and playing the trumpet, and I don't see how the world of academia can stop me from doing it at a high level.

A question for those in the know: In terms of job hunting, what is the difference between a DMA and a PhD? I have a teacher who is strongly encouraging me to get a PhD, because he believes it is far more valuable to liberal arts colleges and universities. But going that route means far more time devoted to research than music, at least for the two or three years it takes me. Any thoughts?

[Nonsense Eliminator]

Adam --

You usually can't get a PhD in trumpet; you usually can't get a DM in composition. Whichever you choose will determine what degree you pursue. A school looking for a trumpet professor who can pick up some theory classes certainly won't prefer a PhD; on the other hand, if you're applying for a theory or composition position, a PhD will probably be required.

[adamcz]

I hear what you're saying, but I would probably be getting a job as a "jazz studies" teacher, expected to teach both.

[PH]

The last time I looked there were only 6 or 7 schools with doctoral degree programs in jazz and all of them were DM. Additionally, most of those schools have programs that are so new that no one has yet to graduate from the doctoral programs. The last time I checked the only one of those DM jazz programs to actually have a graduated student was NYU. I am not sure if the other programs have yet to even get anyone to the ABD stage (although I know that several NYU students have also reached this stage).

A couple of schools grant doctoral degrees in music pedagogy and will let you specialize in jazz pedagogy. Other than that, people who get jazz gigs that mandate a doctorate have had to get their doctorate in an area other than jazz. How stupid is that?!?

[robert_white]

Let's remember, also, that the opportunity to study music as an academic pursuit is a relatively recent one. There have been conservatories for many, many years, which were conceived in the European tradition of specialized musical studies for young people with exeptional talent in that area. The onset of college degree programs in music, though, especially programs for advanced degrees in the US, is basically a post-WWII phenomenon.

Why does this matter? Well, I feel that it explains why there are still "bugs" in the system in terms of reconciling artistic studies (formerly considered the domain of uniquely talented specialists) with the individual ideal of pursuing academic goals in a university context (which is supposed to be the domain of all people after compulsory studies, at least in Contemporary Western Societies).

In more purely academic fields, (the sciences, philosophy, literature, etc) advanced degrees signify research and experience that befits and benefits a particular field. Because of this, most cutting edge studies and discoveries in these fields are usually made in Universities, e.g. the Human Genome Project (go Hoosiers!) Directly as a result of this fact, a college's accredidation as an institution (i.e. "Research I", or "Doctoral II", etc.) has become necessarily reliant upon the academic accomplishments of its faculty.

Obviously, this is a vexed situation for performance studies, since most DM programs are academically intensive even for performance majors. The fact remains, though, that a University willing to hire a faculty member with no Doctorate is taking a substantial risk regarding their status as percieved by the organizations which fund them. This explains why some great players without degrees can't get teaching jobs. While this is short-sighted and largely unfair, until an alternative solution is adopted everywhere, it's likely to remain this way.

It's true that getting a DM is easier at some Universities than others. But by and large, you can bet that someone with a DM in Trumpet has given recitals, taken lots of lessons, probably taught a lot of lessons, and done at least some degree of intensive research into the literature for the instrument. Such a person is likely to be a valuable resource to any institution, I'd say! Universities are not supposed to be trade schools. "Winning a job" is not supposed to be the ultimate goal. It's never been the case that one has needed to go to college to "win a job" playing an instrument. College is supposed to not only provide vocational training, but also provide an overall environment of intellectual stimulation that will let one develop in all respects.

Lastly, with regard to the oft-expressed sentiment that people with DM's can't play, (let's be honest - lots of people feel this way), I'd ask people to remember that nearly all interviews/auditions for teaching posts require some kind of recital or performance. If you can't play, that will probably be evident to just about anyone. Let's not perpetuate an undue distrust of academia - after all, college is where most of us really started to get our sh** together - personally, academically, and musically.

[ This Message was edited by: robert_white on 2003-05-14 14:58 ]

[PH]

FWIW, Bob White is well on his way to finishing his DM and he can REALLY play.

(Bob, make the check out to cash!)

[BarbaraJ11]

It seems to me that getting a doctorate is a smart move for many people who are great players. How many orchestras are left, and how many hire a new player each year. There are a lot more colleges than orchestras,for sure. I read that there are, on average, 10 new bassoon openings per year. So what to do? Teaching college allows you to earn money sharing your skills, leaves time to pursue orchestra jobs at the same time, and you get health benefits.
I actually think a performance major with a DM has learned more that is useful to share with students than a PhD in English Lit.

[mike ansberry]

In general, I would agree that smaller schools are more heavily into getting players with advanced degrees. Having said that, I noticed the other day that the local college, Austin Peay State University has numerous studio teachers who have only a bachelors degree, or a masters, but are heavy hitters in the Nashville area. The trumpet teacher is Richard Steffen. Richard was the lead player on the "Lizard" album from the North Texas State 1 o'clock band (back in 72?) Richard is a very fine trumpet teacher and an awesome player.

[PH]

That might be the case, but if so it usually means that those studio teachers are part-time or adjunct faculty who are paid on a per student basis. Adjunct faculty rarely, if ever, receive the benefits package (insurance, retirement, etc.) that full-time faculty get. Most such schools still insist on a "terminal degree" for their full-time or tenure-track faculty.