Choice of horns for non-American orchestras

blasticore · Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 5:46 pm Post subject:

Maybe it's just my ignorance to the topic talking, but I was wondering this for a while. I know how Bach has become the standard for most Bb and C trumpets in American orchestras, defining that sound so many of us know too well, but what about the rest of the world? Is there any make of horn widely, or almost exclusively used?
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Chris King
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fuzzyjon79 · Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 6:00 pm Post subject:

I once talked with a guy from Germany and he was chomping at the bit to buy my Mike Vax yamaha trumpet because he said that you couldn't get them in Germany, so I'm not sure if our "American Standards" like Bach or Yamaha can be purchased just anywhere outside the US and maybe that is a reason that if Bach is NOT the standard it may not be by choice, but maybe because of availability? Could anyone outside the US let us know what is readily available besides Bach, yamaha, Schilke? I know that Jouko Harjoune (I don't know if I spelled his name right) supposedly uses B & S trumpets and he sounds great on them, but he would probably sound just as good on a Bach? Anybody else got any insight?
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J. Fowler
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connloyalist · Posted: Thu May 22, 2003 11:49 am Post subject:

I can't swear that what follows is good for professional orchestras as well, but its a good bet that it is. What follows holds only for trumpets and not for other instruments!

I live in The Netherlands (Europe) and in my experience Bach is THE big thing. Strads are almost ubiquitous (and rather expensive). Close second is Yamaha. Don't know about the Mike Vax model (??) but the Xeno is well known, as well as the 6xxx series (not sure on Yamaha model naming).

Bach and Yamaha probably cover 80%-90% of trumpets. Another brand you see occasionally is Besson (or Boosey & Hawkes) (very popular for cornets and Euphoniums, basses etc. though).

UMI instruments are around, but I don't see'em frequently. Vintage ("real") Conn's are rare.

Lets put it another way. I play in two (amateur) bands. The trumpet section in my first band consists of: Besson Eb cornet, Bach Strad, Bach Strad, Yamaha cornet, Conn (me), Yamaha trumpet (student model), Bach Strad.
The other band is Bach Strad, Yamaha Xeno, Yamaha 6xxx, Yamaha student model, me on my Conn and a Besson Eb cornet.

Regards, Christine

_________________
1948 Conn 22B New York Symphony
1957 Conn 77A Connquest
1959 Conn 6A Victor
1964 Conn 15B Director

[ This Message was edited by: connloyalist on 2003-05-22 14:56 ]

CityOfMozart · Posted: Thu May 22, 2003 12:53 pm Post subject:

I live in Austria and in almost all of our orchestras rotary trumpets manufactured in our country are preferred. these are mainly lechner or schagerl trumpets, even for classical solo playing. I personally prefer american made instruments, especially my schilke x4, that I use for solo playing, in orchestras and brass bands my leblanc sandoval blends better with rotary trumpets than my x4. Good rotary instruments cost more.
Best regards from Salzburg,
Andreas

[ This Message was edited by: CityOfMozart on 2003-05-22 15:55 ]

connloyalist · Posted: Fri May 23, 2003 1:51 am Post subject:

That's interest CityOfMozart, since in The Netherlands I have never seen a rotary trumpet (or an Austrian made instrument for that matter). Comes to show cultural differences. Very interesting.

To all residents of the North-American continent: the cultural differences in Europe can be quite profound. Language too, for that matter. Even within the same country with dialects and all. In The Netherlands, people from 200 miles away are frequently subtitled on television when they speak their local dialect. These factors are also one of the reasons, IMHO, that Europeans aren't as quick to move to another European country for a job as opposed to people in the U.S. are liable to move from the east coast to the west coast or vice versa.

But I digress.....

Regards, Christine

mileage · Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 1:51 pm Post subject:

B&S & Yamaha Zeno's are being used over here in England. They're cheap and good. A few guys are using Edwards too.

PrematureLipFry101 · Regular Member Joined: 24 Mar 2003 Posts: 16

I am playing a B & S flugelhorn... brilliant tone, beautiful instrument... actually I enjoy using my Bach 3C trumpet mp with it-- for a slightly pointier tone and more immediate accent control. i'm sure that i will come to love real flugel mps though.

samlg · Posted: Fri May 30, 2003 1:20 am Post subject:

the bournemouth symphony all use 37's bar the principal who uses an old 3 digit bell. (cant remember off hand) he also uses a smith watkins Eb/D. i dont think tha i have ever seen a rotory trumpet for sale! but i mainly see yamaha's, bach's, schilkes, B & S's. thats when i go shopping, localy we have all the cheap local horns like amati, no C's or Eb's. though i did see a stomvi elite picc in between a Bb student besson and an old renter! the conn V1 is here but i personally cant see it catching on big time.

_Clarino · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 11:03 am Post subject:

All of the major American trumpets are available here in the UK, plus a few of our own. I know that Rod Franks (LSO) helped to design the Xeno, so presumably he plays one. Apart from that I don't think there is a trumpet that everyone plays professionally. There doesn't seem to be the concept of a "Bach sound" as there is in the states. A friend told me that a Bach strad is really the least you need to play pro. The consensus here is that Bachs are a good starting point, but if you want more you need to have them taken apart, played with, and put back together. My friend did and he has a far better trumpet than any Bach I have played. Looks crap though.

One problem is that there aren't very many vintage American trumpets here. I have been of the opinion for some time that Americans are making the best trumpets in the world (I'm hearing lots of good things about Taylor and Stomvi though) and I feel very lucky to have picked up a LA Benge for £600.

Jarrett Ellis · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Posts: 649

At the local music store here... they have just about everything... Conn V1's, yamahas, Holtons, Bachs, Callets, B & S, Callichios, Shilke's *they play great*, Bobby Shew model Flugels and trumpets, shilke Piccs, and some miscellaneous C trumpets... they have a whole Buttload of rotaries that nobody ever buys and they don't even display the "good" rotaries because they're so expensive... I've seen alot of German community bands, and there's the Bamberg Symphony downtown... as far as I know the symphony guys play regular trumpets, the community bands have a lot of rotaries..
-Jarrett
_________________
Eclipse Medium Bell Scratch Gold
Bach 37H Gold Plate
Bach 3c

picctrp · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 5:07 pm Post subject:

Hello Jarett,
which music store do you mean. I'm from Wuerzburg and looking for a good music store here in the region so that I haven't to drive to Bertram in Freiburg.

Michael

Clarion Wind · Veteran Member Joined: 23 Jun 2003 Posts: 141

I'm pretty sure that most of the professional orchestras in Easter Europe that are close to Germany use the rotary trumpet. If you trace back this area developed from the places where the early valve systems employed were from the German school of thought spreading its students out.

Western Europe uses the piston driven valve system that was also being built in German early on, but was mostly proliferated by the French instrument makers. Obviously now anyone CAN use anything, but don't walk into a audition for a professional orchestra in Germany with a piston trumpet, because they won't even let you get through the first excerpt, if they even let you start!

Jarrett Ellis · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Posts: 649

picctrpt, there is a Thoman's about 20 minutes outside of Bamberg in a little town named Trebbelsdorf... PM me and Ill give you directions.
-J
_________________
Eclipse Medium Bell Scratch Gold
Bach 37H Gold Plate
Bach 3c

redface · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2003 1:42 am Post subject:

In British Orchestras it's mostly Bach Bb's, with either 37 or 43 bell. I have just finished college and 95% of the players there used bach strads. Most of the British orchestras use the same, there are a few Xeno's, a few B&S, a few Conn V1 etc.

orchestraltrpt · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Mar 2003 Posts: 163

Most players in Austria/Vienna and most of Germany don't even own or use a piston Bb trumpet. My conductor recently went to Vienna to conduct an orchestra with a French piece that had a single trumpet part. The part called for a "piston" Bb, and had lots of muted passages (typical French). The pro player doing the part didn't even own any piston trumpets. He ended up using a shallow mouthpiece on his rotary to get close to a piston sound.

-Scott

pitchb · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:50 am Post subject:

Although Canada is pretty close to home, I recently vistited British Columbia, where I had a lesson with the now-retired trumpet professor at UBC. He told me that the players up there generally play on Getzens and Yamahas from the 1970s.

Martin · Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:05 pm Post subject:

Scott,

it´s true that orchestral trumpet players in Austria and Germany use rotary valve instruments for almost all of their playing. However, more and more players use piston valve trumpets for contemporary works. Especially since orchestras pay extra money if a "jazz trumpet" (that´s what piston trumpets are called over here!) is required...
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All the best

Martin
_____________________________________________________________________
"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt

JeroenJongeling · Regular Member Joined: 13 Feb 2003 Posts: 88

Hey Martin,

They should make such an arrangement for us here in the Netherlands. When we are requested to play on rotary trumpet, we don't get extra money. Sometimes you get a bonus for playing pic. trp. and cornet or flugelhorn, but not with all the orchestras.

For the record, not all Dutch pros use the Bach C, as someone earlier stated. Some use the Xeno, some the Schilke, some Thein and some a Hub van Laar (Dutch custom trumpet manufacturer).

Nonsense Eliminator · Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:04 am Post subject:

re: Canadians playing Yamahas and Getzens from the 70's

Funny, I've never heard of that, and I know a fair number of Canadians.