Mahler Posthorn Solo

stukvalve · Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 4:10 pm Post subject:

Hey guys, another question for you ...

did bud play an Eb trumpet for the posthorn solo on the solti box set recording of mahler 3?

what equipment is everyone using for the posthorn solo?

Thanks! -Max-
_________________
"It's not about working hard, It's about being organized." -Wynton Marsalis

matzentrpt@hotmail.com

MrClean · Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 4:32 pm Post subject:

Goodbye.

pitchlevel · Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 4:38 pm Post subject:

jim, do you use the beret in performance or just at auditions?

MrClean · Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 4:51 pm Post subject:

Goodbye.

JRoyal · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Apr 2003 Posts: 770

Bernie Adelstien played it on a flugel at some point, and i think Phil Smith played it on a shepards crook cornet. i am not sure about Bud.

robert_white · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Feb 2003 Posts: 1583

I remember the liner notes for the LP from the recording CSO did with Levine, and it said
(regarding the posthorn solo) "here played on a C trumpet into a felt hat high above the Medinah Temple stage from the upper balcony", or something like that. It's probably reasonable to assume he did something similar on the Solti recording.

Bob

PS
A friend of mine is in Civic, and they're having a sectional with Mr. H on Friday. I'll be visiting, so if I get a chance to ask him, I will.

[ This Message was edited by: robert_white on 2003-05-28 20:22 ]

trombapaul2 · Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 6:24 pm Post subject:

Phil Smith mentions on his orchestral excerpts CD that he prefers
a shepherds crook C cornet (me too!)

Paul

_________________
"For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?"
(I Corinthians 14:8)

[ This Message was edited by: trombapaul2 on 2003-05-28 21:25 ]

Tal Katz · Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 12:06 am Post subject:

The Israel Philharmonic did it like a month ago conducted by Benjamin Zander and I went to listen to their rehersal before my lesson with Yigal (principal trumpet) and he tried doing it on a flugel some rehersals before but he decided doing it on a C trumpet... just a C trumpet with no hats...
I was in their rehersal that he played on a C trumpet and it sounded incredible ! amazing !

Tal Katz,
Young Israel Philharmonic,
Israel

[ This Message was edited by: Tal Katz on 2003-05-29 03:07 ]

King1500 · Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 1:44 am Post subject:

Has anyone heard the LSO recording of this with Tilson Thomas conducting and Maurice Murphy playing the posthorn solo? He played it on Flugel for that recording and it is one of the best I have heard.

Craig

TossedSalad · Veteran Member Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 236

Tal Katz · Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 6:40 am Post subject:

Actually...
It was Yigal's Bach C trumpet with a Malone leadpipe and been goldplated by Malone too and Yigal told me Malone put it in a kind of an oven or something like that...
And a monette mouthpiece.

Cheers

Tal

[ This Message was edited by: Tal Katz on 2003-05-29 09:42 ]

gus · Veteran Member Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 452

Bud in a Masterclass early this year in Miami this year told that he played the post horn with a Eb Cornet, with flugel mouthpiece ( Strange
isn't it ? ).

Gus

TossedSalad · Veteran Member Joined: 06 May 2003 Posts: 236

stukvalve · Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 3:15 pm Post subject:

see, i heard the same thing, only he used a felt hat with the Eb trumpet. my teacher who was a chicowicz student at the time they recorded all the mahlers told me this, i still a little questionable about the validity of it. he also mentioned that he did play a C on the levine recording as well. does anyone know wher i can get a cd of the levine recording? thanks! -max-
_________________
"It's not about working hard, It's about being organized." -Wynton Marsalis

matzentrpt@hotmail.com

greg99799 · Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 8:04 pm Post subject:

The one time I've been fortunate enough to perform the solo, I used an Eb(Yamaha, Schilke E3L look-alike) with a Crown Royal bag...worked like a dream.

ZeroMan · Heavyweight Member Joined: 21 Jul 2002 Posts: 1112

According to the Cornet Compendium, Gustav Mahler originally scored the solo for flügelhorn, then scratched out the word flügelhorn and wrote posthorn instead. Since a cornet is actually a descendant of the valved posthorn, I guess it could be considered appropriate, and I hear that many players (like Phil Smith) use a cornet for the solo.

I also read (in the Compendium) that Bud Herseth used a C trumpet and a felt hat. I cant' remember for which recording though. There seems to be a lot of different stories floating around out there. Maybe one day Mr. Herseth will set the story straight.

The moral of my senseless spiel is, play it with what sounds best for you and/or the conductor at the moment, because even the masters are not in agreement.

_________________
Peace & Love,

Thos.

[ This Message was edited by: ZeroMan on 2003-05-29 23:48 ]

mileage · Posted: Fri May 30, 2003 1:17 am Post subject:

I saw the LSO do Mahler 3 a few years ago and Maurice Murphy played first trumpet in the orchestra then went off to play the offstage solo (on Flugal by the sound of it) then came back on to finish the piece! He was probably working all morning and afternoon as well.

johntpt · Posted: Fri May 30, 2003 4:33 am Post subject:

The Chicago Symphony has played this piece many times over the years, and Bud did not always use the same instrument. All of the above suggestions are true. I have a recording of the first time they played the piece (1967, Jean Martinon conducting) where the liner notes says "Bud Herseth adeptly handled the third-movement posthorn solos on a three-valve instrument." That doesn't help much, but it sounds like was probably a C trumpet.

The liner notes to the Levine recording from the 1970s says that he was playing a C trumpet blown into a hat far above the stage. Unfortunately this recording is out of print, except for Japan. It could be ordered from various Japanese websites (HMV, Tower, etc) but it would be very expensive. This shows up used on Ebay from time to time.

Later is his career Bud used Eb instruments for this solo, and it would be possible that sometimes he used an Eb trumpet and sometimes an Eb cornet.

Ghitalla actually found some sort of a posthorn and used that on the Boston/Leinsdorf recording from the 1960s.

John Urness

allofyougetalife · Veteran Member Joined: 19 Mar 2003 Posts: 207

I heard a story that Sinopoli did this with NY Phil, and that during a rehearsal he presented Phil Smith with a posthorn, saying "this is the instrument Mahler heard at the first performance" - YIKES!!!

Phil nodded, took backstage and played his C cornet like he usually does. When he came back out, Sinopoli was "beaming" saying something like "I knew it would sound wonderful."

AOYGAL

[ This Message was edited by: allofyougetalife on 2003-05-30 07:41 ]