Mahler III Posthorn

JonKratzer · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 7:46 am Post subject:

I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me what type of equipment they use on this, I attended the Herseth Masterclass and I cannot remember what he used, I should have taken notes. Let me know what equipment you have used personally, or if you know what Herseth used.
Thanks
Jon

Tal Katz · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 8:33 am Post subject:

You have a full thread here about this just look down and it's there.

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=9653&forum=4&18

Tal Katz,
Young Israel Philharmonic,
Israel

samlg · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:47 am Post subject:

im sorry for this post but, is there any obvious reason why it isnt played on a post horn? ive seen some on ebay, round circular valved thing, yeah, quite small. how do post horns relate to the modernday trumpet?

thanks, sam

JonKratzer · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 12:18 pm Post subject:

Sorry, about the duplicate post, guys.

I believe I'll try the flugel horn method, I won't have my cornet back from Lawler's shop for a while, due to the platers....*grumbles*

I think people avoid playing post horn because they are inconsistantly built, and not really practical. I'd sure love to try one, though.

samlg · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 10:04 am Post subject:

the last thing posted was about the post horn, i hadnt heard the solo before, i didnt think it would be much but i went and got the music and its a good solo.

my question now is why was it written for post horn? was that what it was intended for or was it just the image of the posthorn i.e. a horn being heard to signal the arrival of the post?

also what is the most common instrment used to play the solo, it is lyrical so flug would seem apropriate but is that an accurate interpritation? from my understanding posthorn are small with a leate wide flare.

thanks, sam

maccluer · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:14 pm Post subject:

I just played Mahler 3 in Denver last weekend. I used my normal C trumpet, and relied on the offstage location to mellow out the sound. When I play it at an audition, I throw a baseball cap over the bell. Other ideas: flugelhorn, Eb trumpet with a V-cup mouthpiece, and C cornet. (Mark Niehaus, Todd Craven, Phil Smith)

johntpt · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:26 pm Post subject:

Hi Josh! Congrats on Saint Louis and welcome to the TH!

JU

ZeroMan · Heavyweight Member Joined: 21 Jul 2002 Posts: 1112

According to the online Cornet Compendium, Gustav Mahler originally scored the solo for flügelhorn first, then scratched out the word flügelhorn and wrote posthorn instead. The posthorn is a valveless ancestor of the cornet, but the modern flügelhorn is much closer to the posthorn in sound.

I think the answer is to just play it on the best equipment you have to achieve a far-off, lyrical sound. Mahler basically wrote the solo as a serenade to be played on a *signal* instrument.

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[ This Message was edited by: ZeroMan on 2003-06-03 15:54 ]

samlg · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 2:25 pm Post subject:

thankyou, thats some great stuff. i have heard of it done with a hat over the end or a felt bag, would this be for onstage playing to make it sound distant or to mellow the sound?

thanks again, sam

JonKratzer · Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 7:40 am Post subject:

Great Stuff,
just talked to Almeida and he said the same stuff... lol
Thanks a lot!
Jon
-Seit Bereit, immer Bereit-

samlg · Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 7:57 am Post subject:

just to bring this up agian, waht tempo should it be played at? i dont have a recording. me and my big mouth, ive got to play this as a solo (trp, pno) two weeks fri! it should be ready but i want to get it right.

i dont think i will play it on flug, as it has alot of intoneation problems (its not me honest) but on my trumpet witha bag over the bell, i might do it off stage as well, just for fun!!

thanks again, sam

JonKratzer · Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 9:39 am Post subject:

I actually yesterday found it more satisfying with C Trumpet with a felt bag over bell(audition sake).
Good luck samlg

JonKratzer · Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 9:40 am Post subject:

I actually yesterday found it more satisfying with C Trumpet with a felt bag over bell(audition sake).
Good luck samlg
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Pursuing MM at UMKC's Conservatory.
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richj50 · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Dec 2001 Posts: 370

http://www.monette.net/newsite/online/summer2001/summer2001_posthorn.htm

smithwatkinsguy · Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 1:44 pm Post subject:

Rich,
I actually saw that a couple months ago and wanted to mention that on this post a while ago but never got the chance to! Only if we all had the cash to shell out for a custom Monette rotary posthorn! I wonder how much one of those would run...about 5 or 6K?

. Must play great, though!
_________________
Aaron G.
Bach Strad Bb 37G bell/Stork 1
Bach Strad C 229G bell, 25H pipe/Stork 1
Rhode Island All-State Orchestra
The Hartt School of Music

elbobogrande · Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:15 pm Post subject:

Does anyone know the key of that posthorn that Monette made? I'm assuming it's in C, but it looks kinda short. Then again, what the heck do I know about posthorns?
Thanks,
John
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"What? You mean to tell me that Rimsky and Korsakov were both named Nicolai?"

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

An interesting analysis in the latest ITG Journal, showing reasons to play it on Eflat.

Other excepts as well.

Dave Bacon

Clarion Wind · Veteran Member Joined: 23 Jun 2003 Posts: 141

Well, personally, I think Phil Smith is fooling himself!!! He doesn't know how good he sounds. Maybe for all of us regular players we would sound better on a C cornet instead of trumpet, but Phil's sound is so godly and mellow on a regular horn when he wants to be because he has so much control, I can't tell the difference. Me personally, I think the flugelhorn lacks the core sound of a true posthorn, it sounds too out of character on the high passages. I think the first choice for me would be a posthorn if I could control it, and then if not, a really heavy tank trumpet on Bb (C is too thin) to mellow out the sound.

vivace · Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:13 am Post subject:

I used my C for my auditions.. and just put my back or side to the judges so the room mellowed out the sound before it got to them. And for my tape, I let the opera house I was in with beautiful acoustics take my sound. It sounded great.

samlg · Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 7:26 am Post subject:

im going to be playing this for my end of term concert at college. i found an arrangement for trumpet and piano and i got my lecturer to arrange it so it was closer to the origonal. ill be playing it offstage but i wont be using a bag or anything over the bell, and i will be doing it on my Bb (i lack a C trumpet) i do have a flug. and apart form the intoneation problems it has i dont think it fits. the college has hired in string players so it better be good, im also on first and thats never good!

as i gather it was written for flugel but changed to trumpet by Mahler (anyone know why this was?) i try and keep things as they were written and the final was for trumpet so thats what im using, unless there is a good reason why it was changed from flug.

sam