What would Doc have had me do first?

comebackkid · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 12:22 pm Post subject:

I have visited the Reinhardt Forum now-and-then, and I find it intriguing.

I have typed myself (using info on this forum) as a type III, Pivot class 1.

My question is what should I do next. The obvious first response to that question is, I'm sure, buy the encyclopedia. Well, what would you all recommend I do between now, and when I get a copy?

There is no shortage of information in this forum. But, it could take a while to weed through it all to determine what, if anything, should be added to my practice regimen.

So I am a Type III, Pivot class 1. What would Doc have had me do first?

Ed

Wilktone · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 2:33 pm Post subject:

It's very difficult to type yourself, especially if you don't have the benefit of someone's insights to guide you, or at least the Encyclopedia of the Pivot System. The most accurate way to be typed is to have someone who understands what to look for watch you play into a transparent mouthpiece and give you a pivot test.

But, you may very well be a type III, it's hard to say. What I'd do first is try to hook up with someone who can accurately type you, since being mis-typed can cause lots of problems.

In the mean time, check out these articles, written by Dave Sheetz, a frequent contributor to this forum:

http://www.airstreamdynamics.com/asd_masterclass.htm
http://www.airstreamdynamics.com/asd_mechanics.htm

You might want to look into getting the Pivot System Manual, which has exercises that are good regardless of your type. If you do pick this up you should get in touch with someone who understands how Doc Reinhardt would assign these exercises, since the exact instructions isn't written down there (email me if you go this route, I should be able to help you here).

You might also consider a video lesson with Dave Sheetz, if you can't get to a qualified Pivot System instructor in person. I can speak from personal experience that Dave's video lessons are insightful and helpful (took one myself and had one of my own students take one, both with great results).

Good luck!

Dave W.
_________________
wilktone.com

comebackkid · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 4:15 pm Post subject:

Dave,

Your response about being typed by an experianced teacher is appropriate. However, I am confident that I have typed myself correctly. Tell me what you think:

- Based on my jaw position (lower jaw receded in natural position) I can rule out types I and II.

- Based on my airstream (Downstream - confirmed using mouthpiece with visualizing cutouts) I can rule out type IV.

- Based on my mouthpiece placement (looks like 50-50 from outside, more upper from inside) I can rule out IIIa.

- Based on pivot class (My mouthpiece tracks up to ascend and down to descend) I can rule out IIIb.

And there you have it. The description of type "Standard III, Pivot Class 1" fits, while all others have been ruled out.

I have read the articles you provided links to. Thank you. I enjoyed reading them.

What would you recommend doing next (again, I mean besides the obvious (and good) answers of get the books and find a teacher)?

Ed

Oh, I forgot the most important thing! THANK YOU! I really appreciate anyone who takes the time to share what has been beneficial to them.

Mr.Hollywood · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2002 Posts: 1730

Strait type III is pretty rare on trumpet.

If you look back through some of the old posts, I explained the strait type III situation pretty good.

After you read those old posts I'm sure you'll have some new questions. Feel free to ask.

Hint: Once you train your jaw, you will be either IIIa or IIIb.

Chris

comebackkid · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:57 pm Post subject:

airdyn · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 579

Hi...One more question before commenting: What is your horn angle while playing...parallel, lower than parallel, higher than parallel? Reinhardt was a straight III because he couldn't get his jaw out far enough, he was a trombone player and a straight III really worked for him. Forget being a straight III ... think IIIA or IIIB ... if what you say is true, just call yourself a IIIA and use Pivot classification One ... unless, as I ask, your horn level is really low, don't get caught up in fighting mentally III or IIIA ...just think more of the pivot, if it is the right one for you, and less of the Type till you see a teacher.

A good way to start in the Pivot System is learning to buzz without the mouthpiece ( and follow the buzzing rules exactly) , learn the placement procedure, the correct grip for you, the position of the arms and The Spider Web Routine...and DAILY use of the Trio (Quartet) of Daily Calesthenics.
If you need any of this, I will email you off line if you write me through my web site...I can's send attachments from here.
Good luck,
Dave S.

[ This Message was edited by: airdyn on 2003-06-03 06:16 ]

comebackkid · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:23 pm Post subject:

Mr.Hollywood · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2002 Posts: 1730

What it looks like on the outside may have nothing to do with how it looks in a clear plastic mouthpiece.

I can't give you a page number, but somewhere in the "type" section of the encyclopedia Doc says that the IIIA looks around 80 to 85% top lip in a plastic mouthpiece.

From the tone of your last post it sounds as if you have no range, endurance, or power problems. May I politely ask why you are even concerned with what type you are?

Chris

comebackkid · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:47 pm Post subject:

Hi chris,

Just call it an engineers curiosity about how things work. An engineer is seldom content knowing something is working, without knowing how it is doing so. This knowlege can be priceless later, if things are no longer working. How do you fix what you do not understand? How do you know that something will not need fixing? I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else, but that is what drives me.

Back to mouthpiece placement.....
I don't have a clear mouthpiece, but I do have a "visualizer." I have the type that is made from an actual mouthpiece. It has most of the material between the shank and rim removed, so you can see the chops. You can't play using this mouthpiece, but you can buzz in it as though you are playing. When I observe myself using the visuallizer, inserted into my trumpet like any other mouthpiece, I see a 50-50 placement from the outside. If I remember correctly (I don't hove my equipment here now) the inside looks like about 2/3 top lip.

Ed

airdyn · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 579

Ed,
Doc always frowned on visualizers. He said that the resistance wasn't there to get an accurate look. Have someone look in a plastic mouthpiece while you play, please. You say 2/3 upper ... teeth almost even ... horn slightly lower than horizontal ...? not a classic IIIA but a IIIA nonetheless if you use Pivot Classification One. Keep the left elbow high enough , probably get a little more horizontal with the horn angle and you should never have any problems. Be happy, it's a very successful , usually problem free set-up.
Dave S.

[ This Message was edited by: airdyn on 2003-06-03 21:05 ]

[ This Message was edited by: airdyn on 2003-06-03 21:06 ]

comebackkid · Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:15 pm Post subject:

Thanks Dave S, Dave W, and Chris. You guys are really generous with your time and information. I really appreciate it.

I see Dave S has the books available on his website, but where do I get a clear mouthpiece?

Ed

Scootsky · Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 5:58 pm Post subject:

Comeback,
Try this link.
I bought one for cornet 2-3 weeks ago.
Plays easy and comfortable but I think I'll
go with an MP with the same rim as my main trumpet MP.

http://www.mindspring.com/~scream/pivot/

-Gary Scott

comebackkid · Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 7:28 am Post subject:

Thanks Gary,

I found a better deal, though.

Anyone interested should check it out.

Dave S. has been selling the clear cornet mouthpieces on ebay for a very reasonable "buy-it-now" price.

If you don't have a cornet, just purchase a cornet-trumpet mouthpiece adapter. They are about $10.

Ed